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Bias of Footballers' Attributes Based on Skin Colour

Discussion in 'Premier League' started by Cotterill:49, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM.

  1. Cotterill:49

    Cotterill:49 Registered User

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    PFA equalities executive Jason Lee wants commentators to address 'racial bias' after study

    "A study has found "evident bias" in how some football commentators describe darker-skinned players.

    The study conducted by Danish research firm RunRepeat, in association with the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), found 62.6 per cent of praise regarding a player's intelligence was aimed at those with lighter skin, while 63.33 per cent of criticism for a player's intelligence was aimed at those with darker skin tones.

    The findings also show that 60.4 per cent of praise for work-rate was directed at lighter-skinned players.

    The study looked at a total of 80 matches played in the Premier League, Italy's Serie A, La Liga in Spain and Ligue 1 in France this season. It looked at 2,073 statements made by broadcasters speaking in English working for media outlets in the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada.

    It also said that commentators were 6.59 times more likely to talk about a darker-skinned player in reference to power, and 3.38 times more likely to talk about darker-skinned players in reference to speed."



    For example:





    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

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    Not sure what debate/discussion you’re really expecting from this.
     
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  3. Schindler

    Schindler Registered twat

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  4. AVA

    AVA Juan Iturbe Fan Club Member

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    That woman is chatting absolute crap. For me that is racial bias because what suggests Morata is a more intelligent player? Yes at Utd Lukaku became a bit of a donkey at times, but at his peak (at Everton) he was a brilliant combination of physical and technical attributes. What's more intelligent than a player who is able to combine those two skills sets? Morata perhaps having a better touch doesn't make him a more intelligent player by any means.

    You want to see an unintelligent player? We've spent 4 years watching Jordon Ibe beat 3 players in a row then kick it straight to the other team.
     
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  5. Flip Duckling

    Flip Duckling Registered User

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    Referring to a black person in terms of physical attributes is a hangover from slavery that is still prevalent in social conventions. The idea that black people are physical specimens and not intelligent beings is a construct of ideological schemes we're socialised into.
     
  6. Cotterill:49

    Cotterill:49 Registered User

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    A discussion on racial prejudice in football, and whether there's an unconscious bias towards black players being reflected in the supporting PFA study. Would you prefer it if evidence of racial bias and prejudice wasn't discussed?
     
  7. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC American't

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    Never noticed this for football because I usually have games on mute, but it's definitely true in the NBA, and in the other thread where we were discussing Black coaches, I had given the example of NFL QB's and offensive linemen being seen as the "brain" positions, so it's dominated by white players, whereas the more physical positions like running backs and wide receivers are mostly Black.

    The NBA example is a common trope on comedy acts and sketch shows. Another example of this is the idea of the "great white hope" for any talented (American) white player, and the countless articles trying to search for the next Larry Bird.

    March Madness and college basketball’s racial bias problem
     
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  8. A Gooner

    A Gooner Registered User

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    Good black player = pace and power
    Good white player = technique and intelligence

    Yaya Toure is the prime example. The first thing people talk about is his ‘pace and power’. Totally ignore his wonderful passing range, close control and intelligence to get into goalscoring positions.
     
  9. Cotterill:49

    Cotterill:49 Registered User

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    Pogba as well, who's skillset is nearly completely technical, and on the ball.
     
  10. Flip Duckling

    Flip Duckling Registered User

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    Not sure about America, but we definitely see a similar narrative with Asian players. Thought of as skillful and quick, but not really much else. certainly not associated with strength.
     
  11. Donnyrovers90

    Donnyrovers90 Registered User

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    I think it’s a very interesting article and I’d like to see further research done. It’s so so common for black players’ attributes to be put down to ‘pace and power’.

    You’re bound to get those people that say ‘this just shows how people are offended by everything’ and there obviously are examples of where some black players best attributes are in fact pace and power.

    But this just shows how there is very subtle racial bias ingrained in us and embedded in our society. This is why the arguments of so many people are ‘I’m not racist and I don’t understand how this is racist’. We as a society have got so used to hearing these very subtle bits of racism that they seem completely normal. It’s not as brash and obvious as calling someone the N word, but it highlights a deep underlying problem that has to be rectified.

    Akny has given the perfect example there with Yaya Toure.

    At donny we have a midfielder, Madger Gomes. He was described in a televised game against Sunderland as ‘Pacey and powerful’ and yet he might be one of the weakest players I’ve ever seen pull on our shirt. All because he made a few decent runs forward with the ball. Whereas I guarantee if he was white, those exact same dribbles would have been described as ‘tricky, agile, clever’ or something along those lines
     
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  12. Super_horns

    Super_horns WATFORD Till I Die
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    John Motson got into trouble last year year for calling a Millwall player black and powerful.

    Don't think any offence was intended but there were complaints.

    Our midfield of Doucouré and Capoue plus Deneey always gets called big powerful, strong - well not in the last 2 games!

    I was watching the old footage of World Cup games etc and there was a lot of what would be called casual racism going on describing players.
     
    #12 Super_horns, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:16 PM
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 4:24 PM
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  13. Flip Duckling

    Flip Duckling Registered User

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    I'm sure offence isn't intended 95% of the time. It's institutional racism, socialised into all of us. We don't recognise it as something wrong until it's shown to us it is. It's not really a perpetrator's fault, unless they're are aware of it and continue.
     
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  14. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC American't

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    This isn't a new concept either. To @Flip Duckling's point, it's institutional, unconscious, even. That's why those saying that systemic or institutional racism doesn't exist just because they don't notice it are dangerous, because that's how it's designed.

    Sport in Contemporary Society
     
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  15. Donnyrovers90

    Donnyrovers90 Registered User

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    100%. I know I will have said these kind of things before, I’ve got no issue in holding my hands up and admitting it. It’s more due to the fact it’s embedded in our day to day lives and society so subtly as you’ve mentioned.

    It’s just infuriating when people then aren’t willing to listen and accept that it’s an issue. Talksport posted the article on Twitter and I read about 2 or 3 comments before I couldn’t read any further
     
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  16. The Doc

    The Doc I'm you huckleberry

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    I think the reason I never totally understand these kinds of debates is because it is something I have ever given a blinds bit of notice too.

    Growing up one of the best footballers in the league was John Barnes, and despite playing for LFC he was one of the most intelligent and gifted footballers I had seen, Pele was always in the conversation with Maradona too.

    It obviously is there to some degree as it is brought up in debates a lot but really don't see it as that big of a deal, everybody can see with their own two eyes what footballers offer.
     
  17. Wolves n Proud

    Wolves n Proud Registered User

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    Football is full of lazy journalism, watching Burnley v Palace last night and Comms were wittering on about Burnley's 18/19 season been sabotaged by the Europa League and they've only got a small squad etc etc. Burnley's last game in the Europa League was 30th August 2018 against *checks notes* Aberdeen. Then at the end the studio lot were regurgitating it.

    The very notion of a cold night in Stoke is based on these powerful fast strong foreigners being inherently weaker than a team of predominantly British players.

    Applying that to Jason Lee's interview you see how the same lazy journalism gets produced for players of colour and specific purported characteristics like pace and power. We've seen Yaya tiptoe through a defence just as well as David Silva I'd be interested to see if analysis of that focusses on Silva's brilliance and the defence leaving gaps or some other reason why Toure was able to do the same.

    Looking at our very own Traore he's pace and power personified, he didn't have a great first season with us but the likes of Martin Keown described him as having a learner at the wheel of a Lamborghini.

    @DunblaneWolf was recently involved in a debate with another poster on our club forum the other poster claiming Pedro Neto was tricky but not quick... I didn't think at the time if it could be attributed to this line of thinking. Interesting though.
     
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  18. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC American't

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    As usual I think things get a bit lost in debate, right? This is again just a symptom of a larger problem, that's why it's not as obvious to everyone as it's subtle. Whether we're talking about sports commentary, news presentation, TV or Hollywood, this is all wrapped up in the larger problem of representation in the media. As with those other forms, this falls into 'it's a lot better than it used to be,' as representation, particularly in sports as it diversifies in the studio, but it's also a case of old habits dying hard. So it's about putting the unconscious biases that are around into our consciousness so we can be more mindful of when they occur, and then course correct.
     
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  19. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

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    Speaking for Chelsea’s squad I’d say you’d consider all our black players to be “fast” while our white players are a mix of slow or average pace mostly.

    Therefore, statistically, I’d imagine commentators are naturally going to describe our black players as fast more often.

    As for the “intelligent” footballer part it’s a common descriptive for technical players which not all countries produce equal amounts of. Admittedly some commentators probably overuse the adjective which won’t help the stats but I don’t feel like it’s used inappropriately too often.

    I certainly wouldn’t describe Lukaku as an intelligent footballer in order to try and be more politically correct. Your Henry’s and Ronaldinho’s? Certainly. Both of those guys had a different level of football intelligence to your average player.
     
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  20. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

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    Gareth Bale and Ronaldinho?

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with starting with those attributes when speaking about Yaya Toure either. Granted he had more strings to his bow than that but that power he brought to the midfield was his main asset. His passing range wasn’t ever in the Xavi, Iniesta, KDB bracket so why would you start there?

    Lampard had an equally good passing range and it’s never discussed before his goal scoring record.
     
    #20 Gal_P, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:56 PM
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 5:02 PM
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