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Brexit What should happen?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by johnnyT, Nov 16, 2018.

?

What should happen now

  1. Leave with May's deal

    5 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. 2nd referendum weve changed our mind

    40 vote(s)
    36.4%
  3. Cancel it altogether

    29 vote(s)
    26.4%
  4. No Deal **** the EU and lefty snowflakes

    36 vote(s)
    32.7%
  1. Flip Duckling

    Flip Duckling Registered User

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    So they're hoping for a restoration of balance to occur after they're long dead and the planet is dealing with much more higher consequences? :laugh: I could understand if people thought they were leaving things better off for their kids, but the reality is those kids will be begging another country for migration. How fitting :laugh:

    In the short term, look forward to the NHS being ****ed off and your kids having to choose whether to pay for health insurance or paying rent. How do you imagine the country will pay for social services after going from a powerhouse to a glorified principality? I can at least respect @RedDevilsShinja's view, as he doesn't want there to be state funded services like the NHS. The rest of you :laugh:

    Certainly can't accuse Leave voters of taking the holistic view.

    Disagree? Then remember that the majority of MPs and experts, the people in the know, think this will spell disaster for us. Certain MPs are only going along with it now because it's "the will of the people". As we know, the people know **** all. Give me a dictator over the ****ing people any day, there'd be less suffering.
     
    #5501 Flip Duckling, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  2. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    Oh sorry I forgot, remainers are voting for the good of the country and not for personal reasons? lol Your post is laughable, sensationalistic bollocks. And once again it proves my point. You neither care or can empathise why someone may want to leave. In fact I’ll redress my point on that, remainers seem worse than leavers on this
     
  3. smogtilldeath

    smogtilldeath Registered User

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    The Liberal Democrat’s telling everyone how liberal they are and democratic. All the while saying they’d revoke article 50 without any vote. Are all of these mps defecting going to take part in by elections by the way ? Surely the democratic route is to have by elections when they change party?
     
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  4. johnnyT

    johnnyT Registered User

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    That Tory who walked across the commons to join the liberals is a homophobe.

    Voting Liberal just got awkward.
     
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  5. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    Leavers and remainers have all acted undemocratically in this process. It’s absolutely laughable digging out Johnson yet at the same time trying to reverse the referendum for literally any excuse, which are pretty much all speculative.

    We absolutely need an election which is far more democratic than a further referendum. I think the tories are going to do far better than people think. The public can see parliament just prolonging this shit until we stay and it may work in Johnson’s favour. I personally know more remainers that just want to get on with things, than brexiters that have changed their vote
     
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  6. CharlieBigPotato

    CharlieBigPotato Charlie wants OUT

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    It's fair to say at this point the lib dems have lost the f*cking plot.

    lib dems:

    Also:
     
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  7. Papa Francesco

    Papa Francesco Registered User

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    :laugh:
     
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  8. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    The Lib Dems are moving to the right to occupy the space vacated by the Tories and New Labour

    I would never vote for them and would hope people would feel the same way. They are not to be trusted.
     
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  9. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    I’ve voted for them in more than 1 election in the past but I do tend to agree with your post. Ethics and morals appear to be going out of the window just to claim a few extra seats
     
  10. Mowgli

    Mowgli Registered User

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    I voted for them in 2010 to get rid of our Tory MP who fiddled his expenses and Tessa Munt won for The Lib Dems. I could never vote for them again i'd rather abstain as i have not and never will vote Tory, hopefully a Brexit Party candidate will stand against The Tory we have now James Heappy who is a ****!
     
  11. Tornado

    Tornado Registered User

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    Lib Dems are suggesting this

    Lib Dems pledge to cancel Brexit


    Although I like this approach, 1 this seems like a tactic to get votes and hope they get a massive amount and 2, they won't have the bottle to carry this out.
     
  12. Bacchus

    Bacchus ストエデ | b a c c h u s w a v e | ンへのパス

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    At this point it's become obvious that they're little more than the Remain equivalent of the Brexit Party; absolutely no coherent position or agenda left that isn't just stop Brexit. The Lib Dems of 2019 are even more nakedly opportunistic than even Clegg's party was, while they had at least a veneer of a coherent ideology today's party will say just about anything and accept anyone if it gets them just a millimetre closer to power.

    It's an embarrassing husk of the party I used to know.
     
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  13. Burg

    Burg ‘Absolute stick of a boy’

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    Tbf their point is after an election they would do this, which would in theory give them the democratic mandate to do so.
     
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  14. Papa Francesco

    Papa Francesco Registered User

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    Frank, please don’t comment until you’re older x
     
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  15. Burg

    Burg ‘Absolute stick of a boy’

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    Sorry forgive me x
     
  16. Copacetic

    Copacetic Registered User

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    I don’t understand why you won’t vote Tory but apparently would be happy with something even more right wing. They are the most likely to prop up a Tory government in a hung parliament as well.
     
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  17. JTC77

    JTC77 Ugistered Reser

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    You're perfectly correct, If they won an election it would give them a democratic mandate to do that.

    The chances of them forming a government in their own right are more or less impossible, and I don't think that's even their objective, if they're being honest. The remain vote is piled up in city centres, and there very little chance of them winning throughout the country when their main message is revoke. A party that still defends its record in collation government, with increasing numbers of Cameron's Tories isn't going to do well outside of big cities, with that flagship policy. Remain (blue), leave (Green) map is below.
    Capture.PNG

    Personally I think their objective is to take as many Remain seats off of Labour as possible, whilst also picking up some seats from the Tories, who think Johnson is too extreme for their liking. I think the best they can do 50-60 seats, which could see them being kingmakers again, and they will probably support the Tories like before.
     
  18. Bacchus

    Bacchus ストエデ | b a c c h u s w a v e | ンへのパス

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    That's arguably the point of the party in General Elections though and something they've set themselves up to do. I doubt the Brexit Party ever entertained any thought of forming a majority government, but instead a natural coalition partner with the Tory government. I think it relates to why they have so few policies, because they've always been about influencing a Tory government in a certain direction rather than trying to rule themselves. A key lesson of the 2010-15 Coalition was that it showed the impact a coalition party can have on the government's programme. While it was never going to be anything like a Lib Dem government it still managed to get a good chunk of it's manifesto into government policy, setting an example for many to try and follow.

    But I would never support the Brexit Party anyway, I don't think they really have any agenda beyond Brexit and a coalition would more be about increasing their visibility and more so giving Farage the chance to exploit the visibility of being Deputy Prime Minister in the same way Matteo Salvini did while in the same office in Italy, perhaps to even greater effect.

    I would back a socially conservative right-wing or moderate far-right party of intentional coalition (a British equivalent of PiS, Fidesz, SVP or the FPÖ) but one with a coherent and committed long-term vision to extract concessions and force a Tory government go a certain direction but not Farage's personal vanity project, something more serious and competent instead.


    I think 50-60 is way too generous, unlike the Lib Dems of the Ashdown/Kennedy/Campbell era they don't have a regional and/or traditional base anymore and they've largely gutted them out with their current position. To get those sort of numbers you need a strong regional base on top of a key issue to appeal to non-traditional voters with and they only have the latter right now. Roughly a third of the seats they had in that previous era were in Scotland and the South West and in seats that traditionally always voted Liberal/Lib Dem. In Scotland they've lost nearly every seat to the SNP who'll likely be even stronger in the next election - possibly even making Jo Swinson follow Nick Clegg's unwanted milestone in electoral history for being the only second ever major party leader to lose their seat in a General Election. In South West save a few seats they have very little chance of regaining a former heartland that strongly voted Leave now they've set themselves up as the party of Remain.

    In urban centres they're competing for the same base as Labour while in most rural consistencies they don't stand a chance against either the Tories or even the Brexit Party. The only place they could really develop a new heartland is in the wealthy, traditionally Tory shires in Oxfordshire, Berkshire, Surrey and Cambridgeshire, but that demographic is so small it's stupid electoral logic to commit to it. It wouldn't replace what they've lost in SW England and Scotland so I struggle to understand why they're going further down that path.
     
    #5518 Bacchus, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  19. Dez

    Dez Likely to cause offence.

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    UKIP said they'd take the UK out of the EU without any vote if they got into power, which doesn't sound too democratic either. Talking bold is all these desperate fringe parties can do.
     
  20. Soup Ladle

    Soup Ladle Registered User

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    I'm struggling to understand what the Lib Dems are doing. So unlike Labour, it's clear they are a total remain party, they want to revoke article 50 in the hope of getting at least 40 seats, they might get that but won't go into coalition with Labour which I find bizarre - they have more in common with them than a hard right Tory party. The issue they have with Labour and they keep banging on about it is the anti-semitism thing which really pales into significance when trying to stop Brexit is on the agenda. The only thing I can think of is that they are trying to force Labour's hand in removing Jeremy Corbyn in the hope of getting someone in 'more moderate', then go into government with them. Otherwise their position is odd.

    Where I'm registered to vote, it's between the Tories and Lib Dems, Labour is a wasted vote, but I'll be voting Labour even though it'll count for nothing despite my concerns with their direction on Brexit. I find their convoluted Brexit policy perhaps more understandable than the Lib Dems outright revoke strategy and then go all snowflakey on other parties and refuse to prop up a government. Just shows what a mess our electoral system is.
     
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