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Brexit What should happen?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by johnnyT, Nov 16, 2018.

?

What should happen now

  1. Leave with May's deal

    5 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. 2nd referendum weve changed our mind

    40 vote(s)
    36.4%
  3. Cancel it altogether

    29 vote(s)
    26.4%
  4. No Deal **** the EU and lefty snowflakes

    36 vote(s)
    32.7%
  1. The Doc

    The Doc #freegabrielheinze

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    The only problem with that I can see is the concept of "no deal".

    I still believe the option of no deal needs to ba available when dealing with negotiations.

    Also "no deal" is currently seen as a final solution. Which really it shouldn't be, it is without the most difficult route but both us and the EU would still benefit from negotiating a trade deal after the event, if we both want what is best, surely?
     
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  2. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    Indeed. No deal makes no sense because the next day(s) we'd go and commence negotiations on a new deal for trade, customs and citizens rights etc. anyway.

    It just turns any future negotiations into a bigger headache than they already would be.
     
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  3. TLC

    TLC There Can Be Only One
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    Don't please - he's had 2 parties try to 'groom' him into that already :eeek
     
  4. Soup Ladle

    Soup Ladle Registered User

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    that sounds fair enough to me
     
  5. JTC77

    JTC77 Ugistered Reser

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    It would be perfectly legitimate in our unwritten constitution which does promote parliament as the supreme power (subject to our current PM winning his battle). However, it does blur the lines as to whether the direct democracy of a referendum does, or should, hold more power than parliament, in which the ruling party rarely commands a majority of the vote. Referendums are a relatively new thing, and we are in uncharted waters, so I don't think there is necessarily a right or wrong answer.

    I hold the view that given parliament voted to hold a referendum and the people then voted to leave the EU that it should take a second referendum to reverse that, or more specifically clean up the mess that was the 2016 referendum. It's one thing for parliament to ask the people to think again, when there is more information available, but parliament using its power to ignore the result, based on the wishes of a minority, would be a mistake in my opinion. Whether its Lib Dems revoking A50 on 37% of the votes cast, or the Tories taking us out in 2024, after remain winning the second referendum, I'd argue both of those were governments side stepping democracy.
     
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  6. Sandsy

    Sandsy Formerly known as manojob

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    You don't fancy calling him the Right Honorable better half?
     
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  7. tajjuk

    tajjuk Registered User

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    I think its quite funny that we have people in Leeds shouting at him he should be in Brussels negotiating Brexit, and in Brussels people are shouting 'go home Boris' at him.:roflmao

    People are also shouting at him in Hospitals as well.

    I am not sure Boris is enjoying his 'dream job'.

    Also apparently -

    "Boris Johnson is said by an EU official to have “slumped in his chair” at a lunch in Luxembourg on Monday when the reality of how difficult it would be to strike a Brexit deal dawned on him.

    Mr Johnson is also said to have “understood the meaning of the single market” for the first time at the meeting, according to the Financial Times."

    Would have been good if you realised this over 3 years ago Boris, yet again your lack of preparation and research being shown up.
     
  8. TLC

    TLC There Can Be Only One
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    He's always convinced he's right and honourable in the right places and based on him discovering in the last week that he's a baking genius probably better too :)

    I'd support him if he did it, but I would hate it if it came with media
     
  9. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    It absolutely has to be an option. Those politicians stating that it doesn't affect negotiations are either naïve or (more likely) know that it weakens our position. It is the only thing that both us and the EU are desperate to avoid. And the effects on certain EU members is being massively downplayed by some. Without it we are at the mercy of the EU and potentially not leaving. With it there will be far more willingness to renegotiate the backstop. The reality is many MPs don't want successful negotiations. They want to stay and many have likely been in cahoots with EU counterparts. This has been the issue all along. The opposition parties are easily as responsible for our current mess than the government

    A negotiation is only really successful when both sides feel that they have gained something out of it. We clearly were not there with Mays deal so even if we accepted it, it isn't a long term solution
     
  10. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    So no deal has to be an option.. even though neither side wants or gains from it? And in any instance (as has/will happen 3 times this calendar year) they could just find a reason to extend the leave date to avoid a no deal exit if a deal is yet to be agreed.

    So, we keep no deal on the table..... why?
     
  11. Papa Francesco

    Papa Francesco Registered User

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    This makes literally no sense. The government had a majority, had they managed to even convince all of their own supporters then any deal would've breezed through the commons.
     
  12. tajjuk

    tajjuk Registered User

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    That is just Johnson posturing, you don't need no deal on the table to negotiate as its well known the EU don't really want it either, it's also well known the UK would be worse off than EU with a no deal.

    As Letwin said in the commons, Johnson saying he needs the threat of a no deal to negotiate properly is like a man standing on the edge of canyon shouting at people on the other side that if they don't do as he says he'll jump off. Yeh it'll be bad for the EU so they want to avoid it, but it'll be even worse for us so they not just going to give in to our demands over the threat of something that is worse for us then them.

    Johnson and his lot just want no deal generally, whilst pretending to negotiate a deal, he's only started putting effort into a deal because Parliament have basically removed no deal from the equation and a crap deal is better for him and in the eyes of his supporters than to go for another extension.

    But he's not getting another deal because they have no solution to the backstop, and the backstop won't get through Parliament, even if the ERG now decide to vote for it out of desperation, because he's sacked away his slim majority anyway and I doubt enough in Labour would vote for it.

    What's funny is May went to the polls to get a mandate for a her deal, came out with a slimmer majority and had to be propped up by the DUP, thus making the situation worse, if we hadn't have had the election in 2017 then we would have probably left with May's deal by now.
     
  13. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    Agreed.This fallacy that you can just say you want no deal and somehow the EU will budge on a bunch of core negotiating positions is insane.

    Think about the long term effects this would have on the EU? Any member state would just use basic brinkmanship to get what they want and it would spell the end for the entire project. Leave groups across the continent would be buoyed. I am not a huge fan of the EU but I recognise that they aren't bloody stupid.

    The fact Johnson's team have apparently shown up and presented the previous deal with the backstop crossed out just goes to show what a bunch of clowns they are. Anybody falling for it is deluded.
     
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  14. Mowgli

    Mowgli Registered User

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    Come on you're embarrassing yourself now.
     
  15. tajjuk

    tajjuk Registered User

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    LOL, Claude Junker confirmed this story.

    So ssssh, you are the one embarrassing yourself.
     
  16. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    It makes no sense if you are naive and think that MPs have actually tried to work together on this. A big part of the reason why we can not agree is complete lack of unity. That applies to all politicians and not just those in government
     
  17. Papa Francesco

    Papa Francesco Registered User

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    The opposition were never allowed to be involved in negotiations, or even in planning a strategy. To try and blame them for any part of this (besides maybe the last month or so when they have frustrated things in order to prevent Boris crashing us out) on opposition parties/MP's is absurd.
     
  18. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja witty unpredictable talent and natural game

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    Once again it’s absurd if you are naive regards business negotiations. It’s is uneven the moment you take things off the table. In this instance the EU doesn’t have to worry about worse case scenario so why even negotiate any further. And it is nonsense that they don’t care too much as they won’t be as badly affected. Some prominent countries in the EU will be horribly affected
    Removing the possibility of a no deal is as much about hindering the negotiations as it is protecting those that would be directly affected. Our politicians are not that stupid! The desperation to get it ‘off the table’ is not about just 1 thing, and it isn’t difficult to read between the lines for the last couple of years
     
  19. Andy SFC

    Andy SFC Registered User

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    Yes but EU know its a bluff because we have told them its a bluff. Governments poker skills have been somewhat poor on this one.
     
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  20. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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