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Brilliant or Bonkers...Passing out from the Back

Discussion in 'Premier League' started by ByTheRiver, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. ByTheRiver

    ByTheRiver Registered User

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    What do you think about your team passing the ball out from the back and trying to pass across the back four.
    Is the new law from goalkicks bonkers?

    What are the positives and negatives.
     
  2. DeadlyDemon

    DeadlyDemon Spurs optimist

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    I have no issue with it. Just be intelligent in when and how you do it.
     
  3. Tomohawk

    Tomohawk Moderator
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    The positive is that you can guarantee maintaining possession whereas a big hoof up-field is pretty much 50/50.

    The clear negative is that if you **** it up at stage 1 of the process you are likely to concede.

    There has been a few goals conceded by keepers, at all levels, trying to be too clever. As said above you just have to be sensible about it - if there is no option available to play a short pass from the back then lump it into the far corner
     
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  4. ByTheRiver

    ByTheRiver Registered User

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    Some players may have their confidence destroyed rightly or wrongly once the media start to get their hooks into the forced mistakes.

    I agree if you mix it up, but some managers seem to be obsessed with doing it all the time and not giving players the option.
     
  5. Stevencc

    Stevencc Registered User

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    If you've got the personnel to do it - it's effective.

    If not, I don't see the point in forcing it.
     
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  6. ByTheRiver

    ByTheRiver Registered User

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    Teams try the high press against these tactics, and if you can find the spare player in the space created it can work, BUT the problem is by passing it across the back 4, 4 or 5 times before this happens allows the opposition to get back in formation and defend properly.
     
  7. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    Just don't do it if your centre backs happen to be Sokratis and David Luiz.
     
  8. Daz_Blade

    Daz_Blade Registered User

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    I think it's good that more teams want to play that way, but some defenders seem to have forgotten that getting rid is a good option some times.
     
  9. StretfordEnd

    StretfordEnd Fools can be kings.
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    Some teams seem to insist on doing this, regardless of opposition, and more and more centre halves are getting caught in possession. There has to be variation, otherwise the other team know they can push right up to the 18 yard line with impunity.
     
  10. tajjuk

    tajjuk Registered User

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    It's the way teams want to play and it makes sense because you keep possession and if the oppo are pressing you might be able to break the press and then basically catch them on the break with a lot of players ahead of the ball.

    Trouble is then if you muck it up it looks very silly and gives an easy chance, plus many teams are very good at it. I recently read a report about Ralf's tactics at RB Leipzig, where they were so good at pressing teams playing out from the back and creating chances from it, they would at times play a hoof long ball into the corners to give the opposition the ball and to then win it back from them high up the pitch and score goals from it.

    You also have to remember that the big number 9 target man type striker has pretty much gone out of the game. Aubameyang is 6' 2" to fair but is not exactly physically imposting, Aguero is what about 5' 8", the closest any of the top teams have to traditional number 9 is probably Harry Kane. Even most of the teams down the league don't have it, Burnley do in Barnes and Wood, Vardy does it through work rate, persistence, speed, Haller maybe as West Ham fits the profile.

    Thinking back over the years teams just don't have your Shearer, Beattie, Duncan Ferguson, Drogba, Crouch, Sutton, Quinn etc. type centre-forwards who were big, strong, and aggressive and could win the long balls more often then not, hold the ball up and allow their teams to tackle from there.

    So without that sort of player, 9/10 those big long balls are just swallowed up by centre backs, who are good enough these days to often bring the ball down or easily find a team mate with their header, so you are just surrendering easy possession.
     
  11. Sme

    Sme Registered User

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    We have had it confirmed that they are bringing this rule in at grass roots football this season as well. I think it will all depend on how high the opposition press on how we will take goal kicks (which could change throughout the game).
     
  12. Frosty

    Frosty Champions Of Europe

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    Or Otamendi is your defensive partner.
     
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  13. gate17

    gate17 Registered User

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    Or Zouma

    Its been one of our downfalls this season... works great most of the time but at least once a game this season it has cost us.
     
  14. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    the list will grow as teams with naff footballers in defence keep trying to force it
     
  15. DeadlyDemon

    DeadlyDemon Spurs optimist

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    They may but I think that's where you see who your characters are and the best at it won't let it get to them. It's no different to attacking players wilting after missing a chance. The likes of Kane, Aguero, Salah will get up and have another shot and another and not let it affect t hem.

    Credit to someone like Stones who has been pillared for mistakes in those positions but come through it and stayed at the top of the game. If you can't handle the criticism, justified or not, you're not really going to have much of a future at the top level imo. Sometimes you need the leaders in the squad to step up and encourage your teammates to stick at it.

    It took the likes of City a while to perfect it and rid themselves of the players that couldn't adapt to that style.

    Ultimately you've got to believe in what you're doing as a manager. You can do that 99 times out of 100 and do it perfectly. The poor managers or players will focus on the one time they got it wrong. Someone like Guardiola or Klopp or whoever is going to encourage it even when mistakes are made because the reward is better than hitting it long in a 50-50 ball. Sometimes you'll win it, sometimes you don't but certainly where the top teams are concerned it's all about retaining the ball as quickly as possible so why play the 50-50 odds when you can keep the ball instead.

    It's partly why City in particular have such high possession figures. It won't always win you a game, the Leicester City season probably the best example of that but it gives you a better chance of winning games.
     
  16. miss_lfc

    miss_lfc Registered User

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    As others have said it depends on the players you have. Even for us with the right players there are times I just think put your foot through it and clear it ffs.
     
  17. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    Yeah, it happens once in a while where we get caught out and concede a chance needlessly - and when it cuts to Klopp you can see him telling them to just get it forward sometimes. There is a time and a place.

    The biggest annoyance for Arsenal fans is that they got caught out twice yesterday from it before the third mess up led to a goal. The fact they didn't learn shows a major lack of common sense and leadership.
     
  18. miss_lfc

    miss_lfc Registered User

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    Yeah it’s frustrating, gives me heart in the mouth moments, even more so with Adrian. Our whole defence has seemed out of sorts at times this season.

    There seems to be no organisation in that Arsenal team, no one seems to know their role.
     
  19. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    I do think the loss of Allison and the fact he came back late in pre-season is behind that. Adrian strangely fills me with more confidence than Mignolet though - who had basically checked out as a Liverpool player once Klopp dropped him for Kairus the season before last.

    They are in bad form from the back end of last season. Their last 5 games (3 losses, 1 draw, 1 win) and their first 5 games (1 loss, 2 draws, 2 wins) and the Europa League final horror show right in between. They'll improve but the performances so far this season have been worse than the results. And that is a problem.
     
  20. ByTheRiver

    ByTheRiver Registered User

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    Think Home crowds will have an effect, as there is a collective grown when passes are intercepted and pressure leads to a goal or scoring opportunity for the opposition.

    Even in Europe there have been high profile teams falling foul of this passing around at the back in their top leagues. It's good fun to watch if it isn't your team, but a few clubs will need to order more heart defibrillators for the fans if they keep it up.
     

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