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Clapham Common

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by JoshBCFC, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    Can we not discuss how unsafe women very clearly are, without having to try and turn it back to men?

    Like come on lads? This is a thread for the case at hand. If you wish to discuss the day to day risks males face then feel free to start a thread to discuss it.
     
  2. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    But it's NOT clear that they're unsafe, that's the point. There are only two genders and one is attacked at an alarmingly higher rate than the other - but it's not women.
    If we want to make the streets safer then that's a cause everyone can get behind, but if we're doing it from the starting point that all women are unsafe and all men can skip around without a care in the world - which is bollocks - then we'll get get misguided solutions put forward like that one nut job that suggested a ****ing curfew for men.
    Fwiw, I'm not trying to turn it back to men. I think the conversation should be about how unsafe the streets very clearly are for everyone - but I'm not the one who made this a gendered issue in the first place.

    Its all that's being discussed in the news when it comes up, how violence against women is at such a high rate it needs to be treated with the same importance as counter terrorism and other such ridiculous notions. What do you think it's been about if not that?

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  3. TLC

    TLC FF's OverWench
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    You're not being dense or thick you are factually correct.
    In the week after this murder when there were protest marches about women not feeling safe I posted that 7 men had been murdered in London too - no marches not protests, nobody gave a shit but one woman dies and everyone is up in arms.
    It's not right :(

    I'm 49 now, I've walked home in the dark with my keys through my fingers listening to every sound on alert since I was a child, it hasn't changed and I don't really expect it ever will. I have never been mugged or assaulted raped or murdered on my way home

    My husband however has had the shit kicked out of him on more than one occasion on the way home in the dark .....

    The fact that the violent murder of a woman happens so infrequently that it makes the headlines is stark in contrast that the violent murder of a man particularly in London is a footnote at best :no:
     
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  4. Richard

    Richard Registered User

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    Three stabbings and 11 arrests in just four days show the scale of Leicester's knife crime problem

    All the above were men. There's been a lot more in Leicester recently and the only female was a son murdering his mum in her home.
     
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  5. Riverside

    Riverside Registered User

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    It’s really a fallacy to focus on discrediting extreme solutions as a reason to shut down the entire discussion. As it is to introduce whatabout comparisons imo.

    If we can rise above seeing this as just a another contrived way to slate or ignore men, surely we’d all welcome discussion about finding ways to make females safer? Just as we would when it comes to male-on-male violence of course - but just because that seems a much more difficult topic to broach for some reason doesn’t disallow any other discussion from taking place. If we take it seriously this topic is fundamentally about the victims of serious crime, not men-bashing (in its colloquial sense).

    Tbh, I’m not sure why you don’t feel comfortable about mentioning who the overwhelming perpetrators of violent crime are, as you don’t appear to disagree with it. And I think it’s actually a relevant broader point if the focus is ultimately on finding ways to reduce violent crime rather than simply reducing it to ranking the relative merits of discussing various groups of victims.
     
    #345 Riverside, Oct 2, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  6. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC Multicultural Marxist

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    Oh great this is getting all lives matter-ed too...
     
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  7. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    Random woman gets abducted and murdered by a serving Met police officer who then goes on to set her body alight...

    BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SAFETY OF MEN!!!??!!

    By all means, go start a thread to discuss the issues mentioned. Rather than hijacking one about a very particular issue. Nobody is saying men are all perfectly safe, they are reacting to real life events and questioning the safety of women. It really is that simple.
     
  8. StretfordEnd

    StretfordEnd Fools can be kings
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    My point is that 99.9% of men aren't rapists or murderers, but some of the crap I'm reading and seeing on news bulletins suggests we are.
     
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  9. Papa Francesco

    Papa Francesco Registered User

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    Examples?
     
  10. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC Multicultural Marxist

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    I wouldn't read it that way, tbh.

    Only a small number of snakes are venomous to the point that it could be threatening to my life (I think less than 10%), but I'm going to be on guard when I encounter a snake while hiking or something, whether or not I know if they are dangerous or not. I see it as similar to that where in a world where 1 in 5 women say they have suffered from some sort of sexual assault, they would be fearful for their safety in certain circumstances.

    I likely am reading the similar headlines and articles as you, but I don't really see any of them as having to do with me as I am not someone who has committed assault towards a woman, but reading those also allow me to be more aware of behaviors and queues that I may be doing completely absent-mindedly and with no ill intentions that may cause a woman to maybe feel uncomfortable around me. I don't see that as a bad thing.

    I would take the same approach across any of the guys, gals, and non-binary pals. Can be as random as how I sneeze in public or not talking on my cellphone in a crowded elevator to something I try to be actively mindful of not walking too close to a woman in a subway station or something.
     
  11. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    Question it all you want, the stats show women are safer than men. Once we establish that we can work towards making the UK safer for everyone without coming at it from a place of false information.

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  12. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    I agree, we should focus on reducing all crime instead of just crime against women.

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  13. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    Start a thread on it. Why hijack this one?

    I just don't get what about this has so irked you. Do you feel like you are being personally called a murderer, because that is how it comes across to me. And it is weird.
     
  14. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    I'm not hijacking it, I'm disagreeing with its premise as I'm entitled to do. As yet no-one has been able to provide me with any evidence that women are less safe on the streets than men, whereas all the stats provided by Stret, myself, TLC and Richard show the opposite.
    It irks me because we're talking about disproportionately and inaccurately tackling an issue. It also by its nature shows that society doesn't value men. As I said earlier, if women were attacked and murdered at the rate men are in this country it would be a monumental issue that would see immediate and extreme action, yet men ARE attacked and murdered at that rate and I'm just being dismissed when I point it out.

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  15. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    Who has said women are less safe on the streets than men on here? Sorry if I missed that, but nobody is saying that. People are commenting on the safety of women, because a woman was abducted by a serving Met police officer and murdered and he has just been given a rare full life sentence.

    Why would you choose this thread to come and say women are actually safe, or to try and spark a divisive debate? Nobody should have to feel fear that a police officer will harm them. Irregardless of gender.
     
  16. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    You clearly haven't watched any of the news reports surrounding this event or the wider discourse in general, I apologise, let me know when you've caught up.

    The fact that one woman being murdered became such huge news when men being murdered is barely registered is exactly what my issue is. I'd love to know, for example, how many men have been murdered since Sarah Everard was sadly taken, compared to the 80 women that have been murdered in the same time as was plastered over every news outlet the other day.

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  17. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    What can I tell you mate? Some things happen and they capture attention. How many people have gone missing since Madeline McCann went missing? I don't control the news agenda. My biggest link to this story is that it happened down the road to where I live, a female BLM organiser was also shot round the corner from me recently and received a lot of coverage though not as much as this one. Probably because the suspect was a police officer?

    If the news coverage this is getting is so irking you, then write a complaint to them or better yet... Don't watch it. Coming to turn a discussion about what a horrendous lump of shit the killer in this case was. As well as the tone-deaf response the Met have provided since into a divisive debate pitting men against women is a weird reaction.

    Do you feel safe on the streets?
     
  18. saint_clark

    saint_clark Up the Saints

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    I understand why this one case has taken so much coverage, it's horrendous, I'm not calling for all crimes to be given equal coverage.
    I feel safe on the streets in some scenarios. I've had the shit kicked out of me in the street by strangers two times in my life, so just because I feel safe doesn't mean I necessarily am. Conversely, just because women feel unsafe it doesn't mean they're actually at risk all the time.
    I'll also say that I do adjust my behaviour in certain circumstances, it's not victim blaming it's just common sense. When I'm alone or it's dark I always make sure I'm aware of what's around me, checking behind me every so often, not going down dark alleys, not listening to music. I was in London last weekend and I was even more careful then.

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  19. StretfordEnd

    StretfordEnd Fools can be kings
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    Articles like this one, from the Independent, for instance:

    Men need to step up and take action, because the numbers tell us that while it’s not all men, every man reading this will have a friend, relative or colleague who has sexually harassed or assaulted a woman.

    Opinion: Men like Wayne Couzens mean that women aren’t safe anywhere

    This is not only guilt by gender, but also guilt by association. I'm not responsible for the behaviour of my friends, relatives or colleagues, no matter how despicable they may be. I am determined as a human being to do whatever I can to prevent such despicable acts whenever I can, but I am not responsible for the actions of others.
     
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  20. Dez

    Dez Likely to cause offence.

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    I'm amazed that papers think these things can be solved by making vague calls for "men stepping up" and "taking action"; as if a bit of peer pressure is going to dissuade a narcissistic rapist/murderer who has little regard for what everyone else thinks from committing horrific acts.
     
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