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Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Lisbon 67, Jul 12, 2014.
I think that's absolutely spot on.
To idiots like that all Jews = The State of Israel.
I think it's pretty pathetic and transparent some of the people on this thread attempting to justify Hamas. They're every bit a disgrace.
The situation as a whole is of course not funny at all. But this did raise an ironic smile:
View attachment 67206
If anybody needs convincing that Hamas has an overt policy of using Palestinian women and children as human shields / bait for a propaganda-boosting body count, then here it is:
Oh please. long before Hamas, when Israel was dealing with a secular PLO, they made the same excuses that they're making now.
The quote was clearly referring to the apparent support for Hamas that exists from several members of this forum. If not explicitly then tacitly.
Well let's have a look at their role:
Their much-aluded to Charter of Hamas is largely ignored nowadays by that organisation who regard it as a bit of an embarrassment and something belonging to a different time. They also said that the Charter would have nothing to do with their program for government. Having been propelled from a small, charity-based organisation into a multi-winged movement with mass political support; they have changed significantly and are actually quite pragmatic. Still, you would never call them secular and an Islamic ethos is a big part of who they are.
Christians in Gaza aren't targeted by Hamas and the organisation has recruited a number of them.
Gaza, however, is also far from being under complete Hamas control. There are plenty of actual fanatical Islamists knocking about as well as a significant number of criminal gangs. Another thing that people often don't realise about Palestine is the clan system. There are dozens of Arab clans in the area and these are also armed to the teeth and directed by elder Sheiks who answer to nobody. The biggest group in Hebron for instance would be one of these clans.
As said, Hamas want destruction of the Israeli state. And Israel clearly want there to never be a Palestinian state. And the IDF have habit of murdering civilians on a regular basis and are answerable to no one, but as per usual Israel murders are excused by typical apologist nonsense. I fail to see how they're on a par.
The Palestinians are a defeated people, they have nothing. They are a poorly equipped people with ineffective rockets gesturing against an army with F-16 fighter jets, Apache helicopter gunships and Jericho missiles. Only a short while ago seven Palestinian children were blow to pieces by that same army but as usual the lives of Israelis are ranked far higher here in the west. The Palestinians are desperate for a state of their own and to reach some sort of compromise; Israel on the other hand is simply railroading over them with a view to destroying any future viability of a Palestinian state.
Spare me the hyperbole. If you want to become a spokesman for Hamas then I suggest you take the first boat over the Gaza. They're always on the lookout for human shields or westerners with a martyr complex. Apologists for terrorists always go down a treat as well.
Fascinating article by the way, what it has to do with anything is anybody's guess but well done for actually posting a link from 5 years ago anyway. Riveting stuff. You do realise that there are plenty of Arabs in Israel who feel just fine and dandy about living in Israel, serving in the IDF, the Israeli police, the Israeli government etc, but no, keep listening to Hamas and its deluded followers, Israel is out to kill Palestinians, any Palestinians. Why it broadcasts warnings and drops leaflets warning of impending air strikes is just one of lifes mysteries I suppose, but lets not forget, Hamas are willing to give their lives (therefore good guys) and the lives of anybody in the vicinity for their cause, a bit like the IRA or Al Qaeda, no doubt you're a fan of those as well.
My man eezo taking names in CA since 2012 x
(sorry RLJ, fandango out)
Point out anything that I have said on this thread which is lies. Boyd 88 was to his credit the only one who actually engaged in what I had to say.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.
Because having a workforce in Israel where 25% of the population are Arab completely consisting of Israelis would be impossible.
How sound of them. "We're going to be dropping bombs on your overcrowded vicinity (Gaza is the densest place on earth). If you could get out of the way, that would be great. What about the 160 Palestinians, 30 of which were children, who were killed in the last week. Perhaps they didn't get the memo.
Palestinian resistance to a program of colonisation internationally recognised as illegal. Denied recourse to the usual non-violent methods. Hmmm let's see can they protest? No. Receive foreign help? No. What about the US? No. Confined to a living hell while bombs rain down on a daily basis. Hamas responds with rockets, yeah, so sophisticated there have been no Israelis killed by them, at all. As I said, I'm not defending the rocket attacks but it's clear they have little other response to Israel's siege of Gaza and it's occupation of the West Bank. It's hard to see what else they might do. Perhaps in your wisdom you have some suggestions?
Perhaps they listened to the Hamas Interior Ministry who told them to stay put and ignore the bombs?
On the answer to what Palestinians should do? Stop prodding the bear. They know all about the Iron Dome, so the only reason I can think that they even bother is to provoke the IDF and incite global sympathy. Unfortunately for them not everybody sympathises for a group that is only inflicting minimal casualties because they lack the capability, not for the lack of trying.
If there was a unanimous push for peace from the Palestinian side, they'd get a lot more sympathy, but Hamas would see it as 'surrender' to the evil Jews so it'll never happen. This guarantees a continuation of violence, nothing more, nothing less.
One has to remember though, the Palestinians find it hard to forgive Israel, as far as they are concerned they are a occupying force.
Forget the technicalities, a lot of Palestinians simply feel that Israel has no right to be that Israel have no right to live their.
One caller on five live this morning, from Palestine said this. They come and steal their land.
Some people also forget, one of the most contentious issues is Israel's consistent building of settlements. Until they remove these settlements, their will NEVER be peace.
Whilst Hamas is a horrific organisation, it still comes down to the fact that Israel is view in the Arab world as an occupying force.
I can understand why the Palestinians have such hatred.
But they are not going to move so surely firing rockets and inviting reprisal strikes is ultimately pointless ?
Some people also forget that the disputed region was Jewish 500 years before christianity and over 1000 years before Islam. Jews have rights over that land just as the Palestinians do. There will never be peace as the 2 can't live side by side which is the only solution and though Israel hasn't helped (building if said settlements) they have been a country at war or under the threat if war for 50-70 years
I don't apologise for the Arab world, but I can see in the case of Israel/Palestine why they are angered.
You seem to think Israel can do no wrong. Whilst I admit Hamas are not nice people, their are some extremist Jewish that do nothing BUT stoke the fire.
What have the German's got to do with this?
I agree it is pointless.
However they view Israel as an occupying force, doing nothing isn't an option in their eyes, rightly or wrongly.
I fear it will never be solved. Even by some miracle a proper two state solution is found, it would only be a matter of time before one of them got annoyed with the the other.