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Final

Discussion in 'The Euros '21' started by Tornado, Jul 7, 2021.

  1. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    tbf Southgate's job is to take the heat off Saka. Personally found the selection odd and if the manager had the main hand in it then it's on him... rather that than any witchhunt that might knock Saka's very promising career off course a bit.
     
  2. The Unbeliever

    The Unbeliever Registered User

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    He hasn’t signed a new contract yet, hopefully he realises he’s out of his depth, steps back graciously and just accepts his knighthood.
     
  3. FranniesTache

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    Not sure how it was ours to win, Italy were comfortably the best side in the tournament and for all but 20mins at the start of the game the best side on the day too.
     
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  4. Rambo1

    Rambo1 Registered User

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    I also thought Germany would beat you and have given Southgate credit but you were undoubtedly one of the pre tournament favourites. That can't be denied.

    As for your point on the threads on here - You only need to look in a Man Utd or Liverpool match thread to see the amount of fans predicting a draw or defeat against weaker sides. I don't think that's a great barometer either.

    My point is that he hasn't done some incredible job that makes him untouchable.

    In the last 2 tournaments you have played 5 games where you were either the underdogs or slight favourites. You won 1 and lost 4.

    WC - Belgium - lost
    WC - Belgium - lost
    WC - Croatia - lost
    EU - Germany - won
    EU - Italy - lost

    As I've said, I think he deserves the next tournament. But he's only winning the games he's expected to win in general which is something not a lot of England managers have done in fairness. But fans questioning whether a better manager could improve on the above results isn't delusional, spoiled, entitled or a "corrupted mind". That's the point I'm making.
     
  5. AVA

    AVA Juan Iturbe Fan Club Member

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    I felt we played well for all of the first half. I didn't mean we were clearly the better team, but I would say in any game where you're winning with 23 minutes to go that it's yours to win from there. Easier said than done of course, but it was pretty basic stuff to just invite them onto us for that entire half, there wasn't any plan beyond hoping they don't score.

    I would argue if we had had another outlet (Grealish) and pushed up a bit more it wold have alleviated the pressure, whereas his plan in the 2nd half just felt like waiting for the inevitable.

    The German game was certainly his most impressive win as an England manager, and it was a huge day for the country. Ironically Southgate reminds me of Woodgate in the sense that he did a lot of good work then made some very questionable choices at crunch time.

    I know it's easy for me to sit here and give him criticism on the internet though. I do think he deserves to keep the job, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued about what a truly great manager could do with the talent we have in our team.
     
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  6. RedDogChris

    RedDogChris Registered User

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    But there's still posts from the likes of the Leicester fan who I've seen calling for Rodgers to go in the past actually wanting the removal of Southgate not just criticising his tactics for one game.

    That's what I find hard to stomach, besmirchment of a man who is close to legendary status. Disrespectful and no class
     
  7. Dirk

    Dirk Hamburg, meine Perle

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    He just said in an interview that at first he hadn't realised that Italy had won the penalty shootout after Saka's fail.
    He'd lost a bit the overview, especially after Jorginho failed too just before.
    :D Great guy. I like him.

    And tbh I can understand that so many failed against him. Looks like he fills the whole space between the goalposts. Italy had always great goalkeeper. My favourites were Dino Zoff and, of course, Gigi Buffon. But Donnarumma is a great one in the making
     
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  8. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    I assume the keepers give muted celebrations since they need to find out whether VAR will make them take it again?
     
  9. Riverside

    Riverside Registered User

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    The way he just strolled casually away, probably recounting the penalties, whilst the rest of the squad sprinted after him was great.
     
    #1389 Riverside, Jul 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
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  10. Cotterill:49

    Cotterill:49 Registered User

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    England were actually favourites in all of those games bar the Belgium third placed play-off game.
     
  11. Andy SFC

    Andy SFC Registered User

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    • Pickford
    • Sancho
    • Stones
    • Maguire
    • Saka
    • Phillips
    • Rashford
    • Shaw
    • Sterling
    • Grealish
    • Kane
    From the 11 players that finished the match, there isn't whole lot of penalty experience out there. Kane is the most obvious, probably followed by Rashford who has scored a few for Utd. Maguire stepped up but after that, there is nothing. Pickford scored one against Switzerland, Sterling has scored the odd one at club level maybe. Bringing players on late is always a risk, didn't work for Carragher ether. As for experience, well some pretty experienced players have missed over the years, while Owen bagged his aged 17. Some have their top penalty taker last but there is a risk if other players miss he doesn't even get to take his. I'm sure most of the Italians weren't that experienced at penalties. All the stuff about Saka's age but Donnarumma is only 22 and was brilliant in 2 shoot outs. Pretty sure most people expected Baggio to score in 1994 or Ronaldo in 2008 Champs League shoot out. Experience, age and how many pens you have taken previously count for nothing in these situations. Rashford's pen was a shocker but the keeper went the wrong way. You see plenty of crap penalties scored and plenty of textbook hard and low saved.
     
  12. Muller

    Muller I like using gifs

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh: close to legendary status for winning **** all
     
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  13. StretfordEnd

    StretfordEnd Fools can be kings
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    He's a kid, and his reaction showed how devastated he was. Southgate has said he chose the penalty takers after watching them practise in training. If he had to choose Saka then he should have at least picked him to take the 3rd or 4th kick, not the one that effectively cost his team the game. Why not get Rashford to take the 5th kick, obviously he missed but at least he's mature in terms of experience.
     
  14. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja Just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man name

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    you’re treating a 19 year old like a kid. He’s only 2 years younger than Sancho, and tbf, he’s very mature and well spoken. Do you not think that the decision was sako’s? Of course it would be. I doubt very much that he was pressured. And if you can’t trust a young player to take a penalty that he has put himself forward for, based purely on his age, then he probably shouldn’t have been picked for the squad to start with
    This is absolutely trying to point the finger of blame at someone.

    He’s not a kid. And his reaction was not much different to every other player that misses a penalty in a shootout. He’s an adult and a professional footballer who was trusted to start in half of our games.
    I wonder what his response would be to people saying ‘he’s a kid, he’s not responsible enough’? I don’t think it would be particularly positive. He had the balls to put himself forward and he unfortunately missed. There is no reason to have an inquest in this
     
  15. MrLeeLemon

    MrLeeLemon 50+1

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    I'm just saying it is the manager's job to take the heat, and I'm not pretending to be privy to what happened and how decisions were made. I've already said in this thread it takes tremendous balls to step up in that situation so I have no qualms about that.

    Would I have had Saka on the fifth penalty? Not a chance. So I understand why people are pointing fingers and personally (as I said) rather Southgate take the hit. As is his job.
     
  16. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

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    Seems more to me that Kane went hiding. Far less pressure taking the first penalty of the shootout then the 5th.
     
  17. Andy SFC

    Andy SFC Registered User

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    Risk with that is other lads miss and you don't get to even take yours, remember it happening to Ronaldo for Portugal, I think against Spain and he got slated for going last to try and be the big hero.
     
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  18. Tornado

    Tornado Registered User

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    Given everything, it's time to start focusing on the positives. We're just becoming negative people and playing blame game.

    It's horrible losing a final in the circumstances (familiar for England). I hate penalties deciding such big occasions.

    England got to a Major Final since 1966. That's progress and something the previous so called Golden Generations haven't done. A very good young squad of players available moving forward that will become more experienced too.

    Let's move away from the negativity because we can all see what's happening with the racist scum getting exposure.
     
  19. Andy SFC

    Andy SFC Registered User

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    The 10 penalty takers career records on penalties, 2 of Italy's most experienced missed, Bonucci's only previous one was in the semi final against Spain. Experience or lack of counts for nothing.

    Berardi – 40 -33

    Belotti – 35 – 27

    Bonucci – 1- 1

    Bernardeschi – 8 -7

    Jorginho – 33 -29


    Kane – 50- 42

    Maguire – 0

    Rashford – 14 -12

    Sancho – 3- 3

    Saka - 0
     
  20. NotsoPosh

    NotsoPosh Small Fry against The Big Fish

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    It'll still be Germany , Argentina & Scotland as the 3 teams we gain the most pleasure in beating though there's always room for Italy in 4th .
     

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