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Ronaldo is the GOAT!!!!! (I thought so, but @Ajjaro changed my mind)

Discussion in 'General Worldwide Football Discussion' started by The only Greek here, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    As I've said, I didn't watch these games, because I started caring about football last summer, but I doubt you watched the Copa America ones, as well.

    As much as he didn't deserve to be considered inferior to Mbappe last season in the Bdo rankings, he didn't deserve to win the award in the World Cup 2014.

    How can a forward who couldn't win the Golden Boot be the best player?

    By scoring important goals? Messi scored all of his 4 goals in the group stage and none in the knock out stage!

    By scoring goals against big teams? Iran and Nigeria are not considered world-class! I have no idea how Bosnia got there!

    By scoring nice goals? That's debatable, but he only scored one long-range goal!

    By winning the tournament? He didn't.

    By assisting important goals? It turns out that the assist king only had one assist in the entire tournament. 20 players had more assists than
    him.

    It was Messi's best World Cup, but Muller and Rodriguez deserved the award more!


    Yes, they definitely reached it with him constritubuting little to nothing in 2015! He scored a penalty in the group stages and that's about it! His hatrick of assists was impressive in his team's 6-1 win in the semis, but he didn't even score in this game. Messi himself understood that he was dreadful in this competition and he refused the Golden Ball, that he would be wrongly given!

    Messi was exceptional in the 2016 tournament, but he failed to deliver in the final, missing the decisive penalty!

    MOTM are a bit overrated these days. How is Messi doing this, despite having so few touches?

    Impressive stat at first, till you realize Argentina only played a few meaningless qualifiers in 2017 and Messi only scored 4 goals that year! One of them was a penalty and he didn't score in any of the other games, expect against Ecuador. Let's not go though how Ronaldo was Juventus' only scorer in the greatest club competition, the Champions League knockout stage this season, despite being 34!


    What you said about EURO 16 has some truth in it, but that's why Ronaldo proved people like you wrong, by winning the UEFA Nations League!
     
  2. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    What about the full, golden ninety minutes he played in the UEFA Nations League final?

    12 teams were competing for this title, just like the Copa America
     
  3. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    Spain was suffering from the champions curse :)
     
  4. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    True, but Ronaldo didn't miss a penalty there, like Messi.
     
  5. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    Cheer up. We are atleast doing it, without any personal insults and by using vital arguments ;)

    This thread has made me understand that not only goals and titles matter sometimes and I've realized why Ronaldo and Messi are so good! Both of them have been always playing consistently throughout their career and they show no signs of slowing down!
     
  6. Eaman

    Eaman Registered User

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    I might be wrong but I think he decided to go fifth again hoping to be the winning penalty taker and get all the headlines and ended up not taking one just like he did in the 2012 euros against Spain where he also ended up not taking one. You think he would have learnt from that mistake
     
  7. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    LOL :roflmao

    You can't argue he is the best penalty taker in his team.
     
  8. Ajjaro

    Ajjaro Registered User

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    The nations league is a ploy to generate more TV revenue from friendlies.. it’s not a real trophy, that’s why Ronaldo and their other top players missed so many games to vacation.

    What do you mean motm are overrated “these days”... there are no “these days” for you, you haven’t even been watching for 1 year yet.

    You have zero understanding of football it’s literally a waste of time to read your posts.

    I’ll put it in a way you can understand.

    Finals: Messi 33 - points 43

    Finals: Ronaldo 27 - points 21

    Career games

    Ronaldo : 960
    Messi : 816

    Career points

    Ronaldo : 904
    Messi : 940

    Champions league finals:
    5 for Ronaldo

    3 for Messi

    Champions league points:

    4 for Ronaldo
    5 for Messi

    Average UCL final rating:

    Ronaldo 6.4/10 with only 1 motm

    Messi 9/10 with 2 motm.

    World record for most points in a Calendar year

    Messi : 113

    World record for most goals in a calendar year

    Messi : 91

    European Record for most goals in a season

    Messi : 50

    European record for most golden Shoe

    Messi : 6

    Seasons with more than 85 points

    Ronaldo : 1

    Messi: 4

    Top 5 highest point seasons in European history

    1. Messi
    2. Muller
    3. Messi
    4. Messi
    5. Ronaldo
     
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  9. prolifik

    prolifik TAKE THAT FOR DATA

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    Wait... What are all these "points" you're referring to? :confused
     
  10. Marty_LFC

    Marty_LFC mentality monster

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    I think it's goals + assists. Ice hockey style because Canada?
     
  11. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    Who invented this stupid point system? Goals are worth 4 times more than an assist! Ronaldo would have the same ammount of points if he played against Alaves and Eibar in Copa del Rey finals, where he was carried by his teamates! Ronaldo has more Champions League goals and this is what matters! Ronaldo also have more knockout stage goals, more Quarterfinal goals, more semifinal goals, more final goals! He even has more assists!

    Is Messi capable of scoring two hatricks against Atletico in the knockout stage of the Champions League with two different clubs? Could Messi be a hatrick hero against Bayern or Wolfsburg? Could Messi win 4 champions leagues in 5 years? If Ronaldo didn't have to rest all of these years because no one could simply knock him out of the most prestigious tournament in the world, he would have a lot more of these ''points'' in La Liga pointless matches!

    Messi was the GOAT before 2014. His mentality then was destroyed mainly because of the World Cup loss. Since then, he has only managed a treble, one Ballon d'or and some Golden Boots. He accomplished all of these records before 2014!
     
  12. Ajjaro

    Ajjaro Registered User

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    Okay it seems you're in need of a reality check.

    You say that Messi doesn't score against big teams and isn't a big game player.

    Can we agree that the biggest club teams in europe over the last 15 years are:

    Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico, in spain
    Bayern Munich in Germany
    Juventus, Ac Milan and Inter Milan in italy
    PSG in France
    Chelsea, Tottenham, Man U, Man C, Liverpool and Arsenal in England?

    Correct?

    Well If you remove barcelona from the equation for Messi and you remove Real Madrid for Ronaldo

    Messi has played against the above teams a total of 133 times
    Ronaldo has played against the above teams a total of 177 times

    Messi has scored 99 times in 133 games against the top teams, or 0.74 times per game

    Ronaldo has scored 97 times in 177 games against the top teams, or 0.55 times per game.

    Messi is far more influential against big teams in terms of goals, than Ronaldo is.


    Now lets look at the champions league.

    You say assists don't matter right?

    Messi has played 135 games in the Champions League and scored 112 goals or 0.83 goals per game
    Ronaldo has played 168 games in the Champions League and scored 127 goals or 0.76 goals per game

    Messi has played 60 knockout stage games in the UCL and scored 47 goals or 0.78 goals per game
    Ronaldo has played 78 knockout stage games in the UCL and scored 62 goals or 0.79 goals per game.

    Overall Messi is the Better scorer in the Champions league, while Ronaldo has scored more goals due to more games as you can see.

    The perception is that Ronaldo scores more in the knockout stage than Messi. This is true, but only by 0.01 goals per game.

    Now since I absolutely destroyed your big game argument above, lets get down to trebles. You said Messi only manage 1 treble since the world cup..

    Well I have news for you buddy. It's a team sport but ill drop down to your level and make it simple, Ronaldo has NEVER won a continental treble.

    Messi's Barcelona have won 2 continental trebles, the only team in history to win 2 trebles, and the only team in history to win 6 trophies in a year.

    and guess what?! Messi led the team and won the ballon d'or both those years, as well as winning the UCL final MOTM in both treble years.. His 2011 win was considered to be the best UCL final performance by any player in history.

    Here's another question for you!

    How many UCL Final MOTM has Ronaldo won? The answer is 1, how many has he played? 5! thats 0.2

    Messi has won 2 in 3 finals or 0.67

    And finally to top it off.

    In the 133 games against the biggest teams in europe... Messi was MOTM 67 times or 50% of the games he was the star player.

    In Ronaldo 177 games against the biggest teams in europe... Ronaldo was MOTM 46 times or 26% of the games he was the star player.
     
    #132 Ajjaro, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  13. Tatties

    Tatties Registered User

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    Why are people still replying to this guy clearly on the wind up :laugh:. Everyone knows a Messi v ronaldo threads going to cause this it's perfect for him. :knob:
     
  14. BoroWill

    BoroWill Registered User

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    Oh Doc.
     
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  15. The Doc

    The Doc #freegabrielheinze

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    That counts...;)
     
  16. BoroWill

    BoroWill Registered User

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    I was feeling charitable
     
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  17. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    You are right! Messi and Ronaldo are almost equal and this is where I was wrong! Ronaldo is certainly not miles ahead of Messi, who is certainly more consistent.

    But, Ronaldo has a tiny edge above him.

    As you see, your formula is good, but you can't make a perfect formula for situations like these easily. You didn't count the importance of these goals.

    In the knockout stages of the Champions League this year, only one of Messi's goal (the one against Lyon) was an opener and it was a penalty. The other were not competely unnecessary, but they lacked major importance. They were just goals that extended Barcelona's lead and Messi is very good at extending the lead, the best of all time in this domain.

    Meanwhile, 34 year old Ronaldo's 5 goals in the knockout stage were far more important. 3 of them were part of the 3rd most legendary comeback of the tournament (after Liverpool and Tottenham) and the other 2 were openers. All of his goals were vital.

    If you only count openers, equalizers and winners, you will see that Ronaldo is superior. Ronaldo, especially this season, never scores pointless goals, unless he is eager to complete a hatrick or break a record. In some games, like the UEFA Nations League, he likes to withdraw and constritubute to the defense when his team is leading. Before you say anything regarding to this, I watched the second half of the final.

    Rations really should not be taken into consideration. We will have to wait till the end of their career and then see who has the most Champions League and career goals! Currently, Ronaldo is leading and he shows no signs of slowing down. Sadly, next season will be the last season where Messi will exceed 40 goals. Afterwards, his tally and the quality of his performances is going to drop a lot, like it happened to Rooney, Iniesta, Xavi, Robben ect. Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic (lol) are exeptions to this rule, as they never give up and prove that age is just a number.

    Messi will stay at Barcelona till the age of 35, but he will be hardly reaching 10 goals in his final seasons. Then, he will move back to his former club Boca Juniors for the final 2-3 seasons of his life.

    Ronaldo will be playing in top European clubs till he turns 40 years old and he will be scoring around 15-20 goals even in his final seasons!

    In addition, Ronaldo has played more Champions League games, because he is hardly ever knockout of this prestigious competition. Till he was beaten by Ajax this season, he had not been knocked out of the Champions League since 2015! Since 2015, Ronaldo has been knocked out only twice!

    Also, Messi hasn't won an international competition since 2015. 2015 was the year where Xavi left Barcelona and Iniesta was past his prime. Between 2011 and 2015, Messi was playing in the same team with Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suarez and David Villa. Almost every notable he has done was achieved in this era. That's how Messi scored 73 goals!

    Meanwhile, Ronaldo was playing alongside Benzema and Bale. The only world-class players in his team were Ramos and Marcelo and Kroos was a bit good as well. Ronaldo carried all of them to 4 Champions League wins!

    About the MOTM, Messi won them, because he is more consistent and I recognize that!
     
  18. Ajjaro

    Ajjaro Registered User

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    You're unable to make sense of simple statistics which you claim to love.

    The goalscoring stats show Messi has the better record, not the other way around.

    If we look at this game through your eyes, the eyes of someone who doesn't understand anything football, even with goals alone the stats are obviously in Messi's favor.

    By the way, you say Messi will not score as much as Ronaldo at the same age... I have bad news for you. Messi Scored more goals at the age of 31 than Ronaldo did at 29 and 30.

    In fact Ronaldo's has only had 2 seasons in his entire career with more goals and assists than messi has this season. Ronaldo was 26 and 28 when that happened. Meanwhile this is Messi's 5th best season.

    You talk about Messi being surrounded by better players. Ronaldo's former team mates are #3, #4 and #5 on the UCL all time top scoring list. Ramos has been arguably the best versatile defender in the world for years, he won 2 MOTM in UCL finals, thats more than Ronaldo. Marcelo was by far the best left back in the world for a long time. Toni Kroos is a world cup winner and top play maker with maybe the best long range passing in the world a few years back.

    Raul, Benzema and Van Nistelrooy. Some of the top scorers of their generation.

    Messi is the only ballon d'or winner on his team since Ronaldinho left in 2008. Ronaldo had a ballon d'or winner playing with him in the same lineup, Luka Modric.

    It's obvious you don't understand Benzema's role, but he opened up ronaldo to most of his goals with his movement and play.

    You say Messi's team mates were the reason he scored so much. Then explain to me why Messi has scored twice as many solo goals as Ronaldo? Explain to me why messi has completed 3 times as many dribbles against 2 players or more.

    In regards to game winning and game tying goals. Messi has scored more goals from behind and from a tie than Ronaldo in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019. That's 7 of the last 10 years.



    This is simply looking at the game through your simple eyes.

    When you factor in the sport, the real game, not just tap ins and goals. Messi's stats are WAY ahead of Ronaldo.

    He's the only player in history to be a top 5 play maker and top 5 scorer for a decade. If Ronaldo doesn't get the ball, he doesn't do anything, he waits up near the net, Messi, drops deep and creates chances for his team mates.

    When Ronaldo doesn't score he is never the best player on the field. Messi wins MOTM without scoring or assisting because of his dribbling and playmaking.

    In any case, you clearly don't understand stats, numbers, which isnt the end of the world, but you havent even seen 3 full games in your entire life. So overall, you're full of it, a Ronaldo fan for the sake of being a ronaldo fan, but not a football fan.
     
    #138 Ajjaro, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  19. Eaman

    Eaman Registered User

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    I would say a vast majority of Ronaldo fans are from countries that have only recently got into football big time and don't really have a great understanding of the game. I'm not saying all but there are plenty. I have grown up watching and knowing every part of the game and similar people to me know Messi is the best all round player. Nearly every older person who's grown up watching football way before me nearly always choose Messi. Let's forget about stats and who is the best for a moment and ask who is the best to watch? For most people it's Messi
     
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  20. The only Greek here

    The only Greek here Registered User

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    Well, you are right. You have restored my belief in Messi. Guess it is obvious that he is better than Ronaldo and he is the ultimate GOAT.

    In this 7 page long thread, I've realized that both players are very close at trophies, goals, stats, pretty much everything. But, Messi is the GOAT, as he is a more complete player and he can do many tasks on the pitch. I've realized that Ronaldo is a bit overhyped and that Messi is just a level above. I will still believe that Ronaldo is better at big games and that he likes taking challenges and I will keep admiring his longevity, but what Messi has been doing the last years with Xavi and Iniesta and without them is superb.

    Let's respect both players, though and let's wish Messi a good Copa America campaign!

    @Andy-gers1 You can achieve this now.
     

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