1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Brexit Trade deal debate

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by johnnyT, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Tomohawk

    Tomohawk Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8,204
    Likes Received:
    4,997
    Location:
    In a Forest
    Supports:
    Nottm Forest
    still churning this up even when Corbyn isn't a part of the discussion?

    Corbyn is a ****ing idiot - even if Boris is a better choice (originally I thought that to be the case - now I'm thinking differently which says everything about Johnson), being better than a ****ing idiot doesn't make you a good fit.

    Just imagine Everton announcing that a big signing will be arriving tomorrow and they announce John Smith, a 40 year old from Macclesfield Town. The fans question it and Evertons response is "well he's better than Ian Jones from Dog & Duck FC". Its probably a factual statement but does it make it alright in signing a 40 year old L2 player because he's better than a bloke from down the pub?

    And just in case you missed it - the point is that being utterly shit at your job but being a slightly better option than someone who is slightly more shit, still means you're shit at your job!
     
  2. King_Kenny

    King_Kenny .banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    65,350
    Likes Received:
    8,664
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    You do realise the Yanks are pretty concerned with all this going back on deals and breaking international law right? You know, the same Yanks you Brexit lot want us to sell our soul to, right?

    As for your last bit, the EU is actually a very favoured partner to deal with for the rest of the world, because its steady, stable and doesn't go back on deals, breaking international law, etc
     
    SALTIRE and FranniesTache like this.
  3. DonnyOsmond

    DonnyOsmond I. R. BABOON

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    869
    Supports:
    Doncaster Rovers
    You lost. Get over it.
     
  4. johnnyT

    johnnyT Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    15,616
    Likes Received:
    10,423
    Location:
    Cholmonley
    Supports:
    Everton
    Take a look at this 15 EU countries breaking international law.Surely you wouldnt want to deal with countries like this.Stop believing the left wing bollox.
    EU nations breaking rules in bilateral trade deals with China
    :laugh:
     
  5. johnnyT

    johnnyT Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    15,616
    Likes Received:
    10,423
    Location:
    Cholmonley
    Supports:
    Everton
  6. Tomohawk

    Tomohawk Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8,204
    Likes Received:
    4,997
    Location:
    In a Forest
    Supports:
    Nottm Forest
    Having read through the last 24 hours of this thread, I have to say I never realised people cared so much about fishermen. And I never realised it because no-one ever spoke about it until it became a pawn (or is that a prawn ) in their little game of 'we've won, we don't know what we've won, but we've won so there'.

    Equally, articles like this are quite interesting considering immigration is a big part of the whole Brexit thing...

    Crewing problems worsen: Visa clampdown on foreign crews hits west coast | Fishing News

    Desperate race to save fishing industry from 'crazy' immigration rules

    So a) where were all the posts about 'saving our fishing industry' in 2018 and again last summer when these stories came out? And b) fishing companies who have struggled to find crews because of international restrictions will now have bigger problems because those international visa issues will become an issue for the European folk they use to build their crews come Jan 2021
     
    SALTIRE likes this.
  7. Tomohawk

    Tomohawk Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8,204
    Likes Received:
    4,997
    Location:
    In a Forest
    Supports:
    Nottm Forest
    Yeah, when a Donald Trump lead America start to question the morals of your country, you know things aren't going well
     
    King_Kenny likes this.
  8. King_Kenny

    King_Kenny .banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    65,350
    Likes Received:
    8,664
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    :laugh: yup
     
  9. DonnyOsmond

    DonnyOsmond I. R. BABOON

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    869
    Supports:
    Doncaster Rovers
    "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday ruled out a U.K. trade deal if London breaks its Brexit pact with the EU over the Irish border. “The Good Friday Agreement is the bedrock of peace in Northern Ireland,” Pelosi said. "If the U.K. violates that international treaty and Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be absolutely no chance of a U.S.-U.K. trade agreement passing the Congress.”

    “I urge both sides to uphold the terms of this joint agreement, particularly with respect to the treatment of Northern Ireland, in accordance with international law,” Democratic Rep. Richard Neal, chair of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee which oversees trade, said in a statement Tuesday."

    Boris Johnson's Brexit maneuver risks blowback from Biden, Democrats

    Literally a statement from Nancy Pelosi. It's not "left wing bollox".
     
    SALTIRE and King_Kenny like this.
  10. RedDevilsShinja

    RedDevilsShinja In need of a new username

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Supports:
    Manchester United
    The fishing industry might not be a big thing to the country as a whole, but it's a LOT to those small coastal towns and is a symbolic embodiment of the nation and it's sovereignty. It's more than just fish it's power, power and control over our EEZ and the Merchant Shipping Act was a disgrace and a national humiliation and it's about time we overthrow it. Also in an era of severe supply chain disruption and increase risk of food insecurity and risk of food shortages it's of national security that we have full rights to the fish of our coasts.
     
    johnnyT likes this.
  11. King_Kenny

    King_Kenny .banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    65,350
    Likes Received:
    8,664
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    SALTIRE likes this.
  12. johnnyT

    johnnyT Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    15,616
    Likes Received:
    10,423
    Location:
    Cholmonley
    Supports:
    Everton
    Biden :laugh:
     
  13. FranniesTache

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    14,114
    Likes Received:
    7,168
    Supports:
    The Pride of the South
    Agreed, it's the life blood of many smaller places that really don't have much in the way of infrastructure or business other than tourism, in facts thats one of the reasons those areas received disproportionately high EU subsidies and grants. That doesn't mean, however, that we should torpedo our entire economy just to support them, instead we should be looking at how we broaden job opportunities there, most probably by looking at how we remove the influence of London in sucking up so much industry and work.

    I find this interesting, i'm not going to comment on the EEZ or Merchant Shipping Act as i don't know enough about them, but as someone who comes from a merchant navy port - the same i'm sure for the scouse lads on here like @King_Kenny - one of the things you find from those of us in dock towns is that we view nationalism in a very different way. Southampton is a city of immigrants, the docks are staffed by them, from Irish, Polish, Portuguese and even the Spanish that came from Bilbao, we have French quarters of the city and west indian (The windrush landed there) and asian sub continent areas that are thriving and have been there all my life (and longer). In fact going to school and growing up where i did people having both parents from English origin was the exception not the norm.

    When I look at the seas, the docks, the cranes and ships i feel an unbelievable pride (and such a draw and nostalgia to where i'm from) but i see them as the opening to the world, god knows the actual tag line for Southampton is "The gateway to the world". I find it so odd to hear people from landlocked cities, with very little experience of growing up in a dock town, making sweeping generalisations about us. Dock towns are different, they always have been, we're products of immigration.

    I mean the only real risk that we have of food shortages right now is because of implementing Brexit, so are you suggesting that the solution to food shortages is exactly the thing that could be the cause? :laugh:

    Besides it's all hyperbole and highly f*cking unlikely to happen.
     
    King_Kenny and Tomohawk like this.
  14. Tomohawk

    Tomohawk Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8,204
    Likes Received:
    4,997
    Location:
    In a Forest
    Supports:
    Nottm Forest
    Could you pack your bags then please mate? @johnnyT and @NorfolkSaddler would like you to leave their country
     
    King_Kenny, SALTIRE and FranniesTache like this.
  15. FranniesTache

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    14,114
    Likes Received:
    7,168
    Supports:
    The Pride of the South
    Remember having fun with some EDL lot in Essex over this, was at a bar and there was a bunch of them going on about immigrants this, immigrants that, so i started to play along.

    Said to them "yeah f*cking immigrants"
    *nods of approval*
    "coming over here"
    *yeah mate, yeah*
    "taking our jobs"
    *nods and support*
    "sleeping with my mum"
    *silence*
    "making her give birth to me"
    *shocked faces*
    "spending years giving money to our economy and tax system"
    *quiet cough* followed by *well we don't mean THOSE immigrants*
    Paid for my drink and walked off.

    People like that are just xenophobes and racists and i can't be arsed engaging with them.
     
    King_Kenny likes this.
  16. RedDevilsShinja

    RedDevilsShinja In need of a new username

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Supports:
    Manchester United
    The EU subsidies come from our money that we send them remember, so this argument doesn't work. Also if you were a person in one of these depressed coastal towns, what would you rather have, the ability to go out and earn for yourself your lot, or to have a handout from the EU? I agree we need to look at how to broaden job opportunities there, and that's one of the good things Labour have done recently when they were debating the fisheries bill that is going through Parliament at the minute. Brexit doesn't mean that we torpedo the economy.

    The EEZ is our exclusive economic zone, for the UK it looks like ths;

    [​IMG]

    Through international law we should be the only people who have the right to exploit the resources of the area coloured blue, this is currently not the case because of the EU. Fishing is so much of what makes us what we are as a nation, the seas have shaped our nation in the past and will continue to shape our nation in the future, we wouldn't have been able to advance so much if we weren't an island nation. Do you think Japan would ever get rid of its access to the seas? Also Parliament knows this (the EU does as well, it's one of the many ways they try to humiliate us), it's the whole point of the Merchant Shipping Act (introduced in 1988), after the Thatcher government had been locked in constant contentious litigation to try and protect our fishing industry, and was introduced to try and stop the quota hopping that was going on. The ensuing litigation amounted to 8 High Court, 3 Court of Appeal, 3 House of Lords & 4 European Court of Justice cases. We failed. It confirmed that EU law had supremacy over UK law, when European & national laws conflict, EU law prevails.

    'No longer is European law an incoming tide flowing up the estuaries of England. It is now a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls & flowing inland over our fields & houses - to the dismay of all.' - Lord Denning

    The fishing industry and control over our costs is nothing to do with your idea of coastal towns nationalism (may I also remind you Southampton and Liverpool are very different places from the likes of St. Ives or Whitby for example, due to the industrial nature of the aformationed 2 cities docks). Getting control of our island waters is important, it is a critical litmus test of our independence and sovereignty, how can we ever say we're an independant and sovereign nation if we don't control our seas? Unless of course you just want the UK to be a vassel state of somebody else, you should care about this!

    Not at all, it is projected that 132 million more people are going to go hungry than otherwise because of the breaking of food supply chains and economic collapse around the world, do you really think there's no risk of that spreading to the UK considering how import dependant we are on our food supply?
     
  17. FranniesTache

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    14,114
    Likes Received:
    7,168
    Supports:
    The Pride of the South
    Interesting article that and definitely a great argument against Brexit given the current global conditions, thanks for sharing
     
  18. RedDevilsShinja

    RedDevilsShinja In need of a new username

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Supports:
    Manchester United
    We've already delayed it for 4 years :laugh: We can't delay it anymore.
     
  19. FranniesTache

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    14,114
    Likes Received:
    7,168
    Supports:
    The Pride of the South
    To be honest i wish politics was treated more like a business in these cases, no sane business would push through with something they'd planned four years ago if they entire landscape had changed, god knows why we do it in politics.
     
  20. RedDevilsShinja

    RedDevilsShinja In need of a new username

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,548
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Supports:
    Manchester United
    Imagine how pissed of everybody would be if Boris came out and said 'because of the China Virus we're delaying Brexit again' :laugh: It's politcally unfeasible.
     

Share This Page