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The Death Penalty

Discussion in 'General Off Topic Discussion' started by Stan_Drews, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:48 PM.

  1. BleedsIsDead

    BleedsIsDead Pints x Packet x Potter

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    Other countries that have the death penalty?
     
  2. miss_lfc

    miss_lfc Registered User

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    Then reverse the statement to the other way round for the countries that do have it, if they have it then how do they know the crime figures would be the same without it?
     
  3. BleedsIsDead

    BleedsIsDead Pints x Packet x Potter

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    Because it’s mixed on a state by state basis in America.

    upload_2019-12-2_23-27-37.jpeg

    What crimes do you think the death penalty would deter people from?
     
  4. Minty

    Minty Carpe Diem

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    Disagree.


    It IS proven. Stop cherry picking part of my post to suit your argument.

    A Clear Scientific Consensus that the Death Penalty does NOT Deter – Amnesty International USA


    *facepalm*
    So if someone beats up your kids do you then go and beat up their kids? Absolutely retarded logic. You don't lower yourself to the level of Huntley. Like or not, prisoners still have human rights and nothing you say will ever change that.


    Anyone actually wanting to watch the death of another human is disgusting.


    Childish waffle. Imagine complaining about people trying to 'do good' as a negative.


    Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, imprisonment is a punishment, and death releases them from it.

    No, the key words there are 'without parole'.


    The process will always exist, it has to, otherwise the judiciary system is pointless.


    Pish. Someone else being killed does not bring back their loved one or turn back time. It's not assumption at all.The grief does not disappear because they've had "revenge".

    “Revenge is not justice,” says Lorrain Taylor, whose twin boys, Albade and Obadiah, aged 22, were murdered while working on their stalled car. Obadiah had plans to open his own barbershop, and Albade had just received a promotion at the law firm where he worked.

    “Taking another person’s life does not stop violence,” says Taylor. “There’s a contradiction in responding to murder by executing people.”
    Families of Murder Victims Speak Out Against the Death Penalty

    I've bolded the important parts for you so you don't make the assumption, that I'm basing my views on assumptions. :finger


    Even if it's proven beyond doubt, there will ALWAYS be a legal process that has to be followed, which will always be costly. You can't just make that process disappear because you want a guilty person to die more quickly. Like I said, it's a random lottery and an inconsistency of so called justice.


    The terrorist was able to walk free because of a policy, set in England and Wales between 2008 & 2012, that allowed prisoners like him to automatically walk free having served half his sentence, without having to go through a parole board.

    The evidence does not agree with you here.

    "Europe has abandoned the death penalty, but European countries have lower murder rates and higher rates of solving homicides than the United States. In the United States, states with the death penalty generally have higher murder rates than states without it. For example, southern states have the highest murder rates and account for 82 percent of all U.S. executions. The deterrence argument is weak and it goes against our experience investigating serious crimes: the majority of offenders do not think through the consequences of their actions. In fact, they do not think they will ever be caught."

    Also:
    [​IMG]

    Funny how the places without the death penalty, are CLEARLY SAFER.

    "
    States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates - A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. “I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago,” said the state’s governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state’s abolition of the death penalty in 1846. “We’re pretty proud of the fact that we don’t have the death penalty.” (New York Times, 9/22/00)

    States Without the Death Penalty Fared Better Over Past Decade - In the past ten years, the number of executions in the U.S. has increased while the murder rate has declined. Some commentators have maintained that the murder rate has dropped because of the increase in executions (see, e.g., W. Tucker, “Yes, the Death Penalty Deters,” Wall St. Journal, June 21, 2002). However, during this decade the murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in states with the death penalty."

    When comparisons are made between states with the death penalty and states without, the majority of death penalty states show murder rates higher than non-death penalty states. The average of murder rates per 100,000 population in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5, whereas the average of murder rates among non-death penalty states was only 3.6."

    Murder Rate of Death Penalty States Compared to Non-Death Penalty States | Death Penalty Information Center
    [/quote]
     
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  5. MrE

    MrE Registered User

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    How many people who seem to be talking down the harshness of prison time, have actually been to prison?

    (stories from friends of friends of friends, not welcome)
     
  6. Guyett

    Guyett Posts gifs

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    I vote yes, but only for Everton supporting, flat earth theorizing, 911 disputing Brexit bum bois.
     
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  7. Taffy

    Taffy C'mon you reds.

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    Check out how many have been executed in America then years later were exonerated.

    Three fellas were released last week in America having each served 36 years ( yes thirty six) for murder. Should they have been executed many years ago. Long time dead.

    A name i will never forget.... Stefan Kiszko did 16 years for the sexual assault and murder of an 11 year old. Took 16 years before the authorities realised they had the wrong guy. Good job we never had the death penalty when he was convicted.

    Of course we accept someone must be guilty when they are sent to prison but at the same time the judicial system does get a conviction wrong which is discovered many years later.
     
  8. A Gooner

    A Gooner Registered User

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    Death penalty is an easy way out for these people. Serve time and live in shame for your crime. Especially a crime where you take someone’s human right away from them....murder and rape the two main ones.

    You go to prison and you have your human rights taken off you. A punishment far worse than death imo. Treated like a rabid dog until the day you die :shrug
     
  9. King_Kenny

    King_Kenny .banned

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    Yeah I remember that one, didn't he die a few months after his release? Shocking miscarriage of justice.
     
  10. Minty

    Minty Carpe Diem

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    No, you have your freedom taken from you, not your basic human rights.

    "As a prisoner you have the right to life, freedom from torture and inhuman treatment, right to liberty and security, the right to a fair trial, the right to family and private life, freedom of belief and religion, freedom of expression, the right to marry and freedom from discrimination."

    "Prisoners are entitled to receive the same range and quality of healthcare services in prison as they would if they were in the community."

    "It is unlawful to discriminate against prisoners on the basis of their age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex or sexual orientation."

    "All citizens in the UK are entitled to certain rights, including those held at Her Majesty’s pleasure i.e. prisoners.

    Prison law protects prisoners and their families through the whole spectrum of issues that may arise within the prison system. Specialist prison law lawyers can help by:

    • Supporting prisoners throughout their sentence including challenging poor conditions and medical issues
    • Supporting prisoners through the parole process
    • Providing representation, especially at disciplinary hearings
    • Ensuring that a prisoner's categorisation is appropriate
    • Representing families who are party to coroners' inquests (whether relating to deaths in police, prison custody or other circumstances.
    Prisoners enjoy basic rights that are protected in law. For example, they have the right to food and water, protection from assault and access to the courts.

    They are legally entitled to contact family and loved ones, either via prison visits or over the phone and can write letters to whomever they choose once a week (as long as the letter adheres to certain rules and the recipient is approved by the prison governor.)

    Prisoners will also obviously have fewer rights than law-abiding citizens. For example, they can be searched at anytime and are not allowed to leave their prison.

    They can be punished by the prison governor or a district judge if their behaviour breaches the rules in place at any time.

    In addition, prisoners are prohibited from voting in elections.

    The rules on prisoners’ rights are available in all prison libraries. If you’re held in prison, you can ask to see the prison standing orders and the prison service instructions which set out your rights.

    You should also receive the guide to prisoners’ rights, which has been written by the Prison Service and the Prison Reform Trust, upon your arrival.

    Disabled prisoners will be given a guide specifically for them."

    "
    there are other human rights that every individual is entitled to under the European Convention on Human Rights, whether they are in prison or not. These rights allow them, among other things:

    • the right to food and water
    • an education
    • a solicitor and private legal counsel
    • freedom from discrimination and harassment
    • good healthcare
    • communication with those outside prison
    • freedom of religion
    • the right to marry and start a family."

    ---------------

    All of the above and more, is one of many reasons as to why the death penalty ends up costing more than a life sentence.
     
  11. Taffy

    Taffy C'mon you reds.

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    He had the mental age of a child so he was an easy target by the police. If i remember right they claimed his sperm was found on the little girls underwear but years later they found out he could not produce sperm..... the court was never told this. Sends a shiver down the spine thinking what he endured while locked up as an innocent man, we all know child killers are the lowest of the low in the world of prison as well on the outside. The poor bugger died not long after his release and his mum followed him not long after.

    Is a name have remembered nearly 30 years on.
     
  12. Stan_Drews

    Stan_Drews *********

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    How many people who don’t support the death penalty have lost a loved one to terrorist scum?
     
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  13. Villa Rocker

    Villa Rocker Registered User

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    In all honesty Stan the heartbreak will be there regardless of what happens to the scum. Death is an easy way out and it’s what they want. I’d prefer them to be locked up and properly suffer whilst being locked up. The only problem then is you’d have the human rights involved then.
     
  14. Bobbin’

    Bobbin’ Registered User

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    Terrorists who plan/carry out large scale murder.

    It’s entirely unnecessary.

    It’s actually quite staggering that there’s people that genuinely believe the best course of action is to lock them up in a building full of like minded individuals to fuel their hate, targeting vulnerable people with their warped ideas and potentially putting the lives of other prisoners and prison staff at risk.

    Whilst these people are breathing, we’re not safe.

    By the way, these people aren’t punished in prison :laugh: they pretty much run them. They bully, play the race card to get what they want, whole prison menus are amended to suit them etc.
     
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  15. Villa Rocker

    Villa Rocker Registered User

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    Prisons are breeding grounds. Guantanamo bay was a breeding ground. That refugee camp in Syria is a breeding ground. Also we need to take a look at our own governments foreign policy too, which is a massive recruitment tool for these jihadists.
     
  16. Stan_Drews

    Stan_Drews *********

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    You can’t breed someone who’s dead. Rock earlier on you said you agree with it now you’re saying you don’t?

    What gives bruv?
     
  17. Villa Rocker

    Villa Rocker Registered User

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    I’m trying to look at it from outside the box . I’m not saying I don’t agree with it, I’m just giving some insight in some problems regarding the death penalty. It’s not black and white unfortunately. One dead terrorist and another 100 will take his place. We need to look at the bigger picture. I think I’d rather someone suffer for years and years rather than have the easy way out which is death.
     
  18. Stan_Drews

    Stan_Drews *********

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    So you’ve agreed and disagreed with it in the same post FFS :)
     
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  19. Villa Rocker

    Villa Rocker Registered User

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    I suppose I have. It’s complicated. If someone killed one of my loved ones I’d rather they be kept alive and be locked away suffering everyday of their lives. That will never happen because of human rights. So I’m left with them doing a cosy 20 years in prison where they mingle with fellow people and play Xbox . I’d rather the death penalty over that.
     
  20. johnnyT

    johnnyT Registered User

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    Let the victims decide on it, unless they are Labour voters.
     
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