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Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by ManUnited20, Oct 31, 2015.
In, Out or give it time?
He's had 18 months and £250m and we're playing some of the most boring and negative football I've ever seen a team play, and it's by design - he wants us to play this way!! Let that sink in for a minute.
Our attack is pitiful. He got rid of Di Maria,RVP, Hernandez, Nani, and Falcao (fair enough) and replaced them with Martial, who is now stuck on the wing to accommodate a useless unfit fat git who is immune to being dropped.
He's better than Moyes in terms of handling the media and commanding the respect of top level players, but football wise he's horrible. Every match I find myself wanting to go and do something else by half time. I've never felt so bored and disinterested when it comes to United before. van Gaal is sucking everything that is good about football out of our team
unless he doesn't get top 4 he is going nowhere.
So much true here
We were boring in Fergie's later years because he was stubborn and played midfields of Park and Giggs before buying players we desperately needed, so we had zero creativity and got overran all the time.
Moyes was just shit and lost everyone's respect and whatever. Mistake.
LvG has had so much money to spend and bought some fantastic players. Last year, he took about 15 games before he realised pathetically playing 3 at the back even against league 1 opposition was ****ing shit. He was forced to change the set up once Di Maria was sent off and, imo, by chance, he got something which worked. Now we've strengthened even more but we've gone back to playing like we did for most of last season. It's not the players, he's shackling everyone with this zero risk style. We're just about defensively better, and I say that because today was another example where we easily could have lost against lesser opposition. It helps that De Gea is amazing and Smalling has transformed, but there are just as many games where we're shaky and confused.
Always ends in tears with Louis, "Death or Gladiolas" is his favourite saying, at least we got some gladiolas before it went tits up.
Ferguson let the team deteriorate but at least the last 10 minutes of a match were usually exciting because we'd relentlessly attack to try and grab a win, and quite often we'd get the win. He at least advocated attacking football regardless of the quality of players he had.
We could be 1-0 down in the CL final with 2 minutes left and van Gaal would still be happy for us to pass it around the back four if it meant not losing possession. Can't stand this negative football
The entire 'out' brigade is based on the football he plays, without any regard to the bigger picture.
The big picture is the football that we play. Entertaining, attacking football is directly linked with winning trophies. Barcelona and Bayern don't win the CL by playing boring possession football
The bigger picture is how we're tactically and technically much better now than under SAF in his final seasons, how De Gea has become one of the top two 'keepers in the world under Hoek's tutelage, how the penny has dropped with Smalling and he has become a fantastic defender, how we've cleared out most of the deadwood and are developing younger players like Pereira, McNair and Lingard, and how LVG is building a squad that may not be successful for him, but will be successful for his successor. He left Barca having given debuts to Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Valdes, and he left Bayern having promoted Alaba, Muller and Badstuber and moved Schweinsteiger to the centre of midfield. He's here as part of a plan that stretches years. To sack him because we haven't scored in three games would be madness.
Every Bayern fan I have met or asked about him has had 90% negative to say, the positive being an after thought. Barcelona fans despised him, plenty gave him the same banner treatment Moyes got at United.
It seems only some United fans try and convince themselves he was a good and liked manager for those clubs and players.
I don't know. The owners will not miss the fact that Chelsea who were above us last season have dropped out as far as they have. For him to match last season he will need to get 3rd. For us to be able consider it progress made we will need to somehow get second which isn't happening.
If we don't look likely to win a league (such as finishing 2nd) then we are not going to attract any real top quality talent, at least not the way we are playing. It seems we are aiming to get marquee signings each summer, with commercial sponsors likely wanting that also.
As far as I am concerned, he has not been great with the money he has spent, making a good few very questionable purchases. The football is dire and the results are getting worse (3 goalless draws in a row). The favouritism towards Rooney has gone well too far. The team selections and tactical naivety is infuriating at times. If he is not able to get 2nd then he has failed to progress and he has done so after getting every bit of backing he could need in the market.
I can appreciate your efforts to find positives, but the fact is I no longer look forward to going to the match, if anything it's a chore that has to be done rather than something that's exciting and the highlight of my week. To be honest we've been hard to watch since Ferguson's last season in charge, but van Gaal's team's performances remind me of Sexton's awful, awful, tedious rubbish.
Planning for the future is fine, but in the Premier League you have to do it whilst still being a force and a contender, Ferguson built team after team after team over 20 years, while still winning silverware.
Jesus. Are you serious?
Mission 1 - CL - Accomplished
Season 2 - 10 games.
You're 4 points off 1st...
To match last season he would need 4th. The owners allowed Moyes enough tenure until he failed to reach CL. We signed marquis signings after finishing 7th with no european football at all. Roon£y hasn't been dropped with any regularity by Fergie, Moyes, Hodgson, Capello etc. Despite being average for longer than most care to admit.
None of that will matter to the board if he gets top 4.
It might to you, to me and to anybody else but not to the board.
Not really. the league winners are now seemingly out of the picture. effectively meaning one of the 3 teams above us last season has now offered next to no opposition to our campaign, so 3rd would be expected, Chelsea imploding is not us making progress. (Obviously it is technically, but if you are going to say he did better than last season, he has to outperform the standard of last season which would be beating Arsenal to second)
True maybe the board doesn't see it that way and 4th will not be the end of the world to them. I just can't see sponsors offering the money they do like Adidas and Chevrolet if we are consonantly fighting for 4th. I would also be very surprised if such a valuable contract from Adidas has no incentives or achievement based clauses.
Rooney under Fergie was never really average, in fact he was always one of our most vital players. Under Moyes he was not incredible, but his goals and assists were better than most in the league and he was maybe the only player having any sort of impact. The difference between then and now is a god damn cavernous drop. The international argument about his form is a bit irrelevant when the entire team underperformed under those managers and he was just the best underperformer they had. I honestly think Roy will drop him now.
The only manager to have Rooney when he offers absolutely nothing to the team, has been LVG. Sure he slowed down 2011 onwards but he was still always a key figure. The only person who has managed him when it would benefit the team to remove him has been LVG.
In a nutshell.
FFS it's only 11 games into the season, our 'star' player is going through the worse patch of his life, of which the manager is sticking with him to try and get him into some form, as if he does hit form for a good while it could be the difference in finishing above City and Arsenal, or below them. And if he doesn't hit form, which I think many on here would agree that it's looking increasingly unlikely, then he'll eventually be dropped, plain and simple. I mean FFS the exact same situation happened last year with RVP and Falcao, they were persisted with until it was obvious that they were not going to get up to scratch, but that wasn't until after Christmas.
Likewise for all the bullshit about playing Martial up front, I'm sorry, but Memphis has been a complete and utter disappointment in the league, he apparently has attitude problems, and is almost always our second worse player when he plays, and, unlike Rooney, he has NO credit in the bank to stay in the team, the only other player we could play left wing is Young, who has been injured, and again, last season taught us that LVG very slowly eases players back into the team from injuries. And if you do play Martial centrally do you really want to drop Herrera, as that is what would happen.
Yes the football is crap, but honestly, it's been pretty crap for at least 3 seasons now, and honestly, it's been pretty crap since 07/8, even 08/9 was woeful at best for long periods, we just had Ronny to pull us from the shit and get us a goal out of nothing, I mean ffs didn't we go something daft like 10 games wining scrappy 1-0s?
I pretty much disagree with all of that tbf.
Your rational is we must finish above Arsenal to show improvement?
Yet by default we could finish above the league champions which shows no improvement?
You can't gauge your season like that it is nonsense.
Roon£y has been gash for ages but people have been placated with his goals/stats return ignoring the actual performance.
I have posed this question several times and nobody has been able to answer it, when was the last "great" game Roon£y had?
Tell you what let's make it when was the last game he was the best player on the pitch?
And replace him with who? Ryan Giggs? Unless you're getting Guardiola I don't see the point. Ancelotti maybe. United will finish top 3 without breaking much sweat and see what happens in Europe or the cup.
The way United play is the Val Gaal MO. Aimless possession, slow football, give nothing away. To make it work you need a striker who can score every week otherwise there's hardly any goals in the game. United aren't used to regular 0-0 draws.
United need to work out if Van Gaal's way is what they want because he's excellent in building foundations. If they're just going to go back to attacking football under the next man and do away with the possession based approach then Van Gaal's efforts could end up a waste of time. Guardiola would be the ideal as his teams are so much better to watch.