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Wenger Was Overrated

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Huxley, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Huxley

    Huxley Active Member

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    Even during his peak years.

    He couldn't dominate, he couldn't build more than one successful team. When George Graham's defence got too old, that was pretty much when it all started falling apart.

    Three leagues in 22 years is not a great record. And the invincibles were nothing more than a novelty season.

    A team that doesn't win at least two titles in a row is nothing historic.
     
    Dickie Cooper likes this.
  2. buzzbee

    buzzbee Registered User

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    As much as I dislike Arsenal, he brought a new way of managing teams to the Premier League. His training methods were pretty unique at the time.

    However, when others adopted his ways, he didn't have anything new to offer and his teams started struggling!

    I think Arsenal fans should remember him as a club legend, but alas, I think a lot of the bad feeling towards him in the latter years will stop that happening.

    Side note: I always had to turn over when he was being interviewed. Couldn't stand to look or listen to him!
     
  3. Dickie Cooper

    Dickie Cooper Super Duper Dickie Cooper

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    Nah - can't agree. He was revolutionary when he came to England and where he walked the rest followed - even Fergie.

    Wenger was all about diet, psychology, physical science. Might seem commonplace now but back then you'd have your lump of a striker eating steak for breakfast lunch and dinner and washing it down with stout to build him up so he could nut the long balls down to the nippy poacher. Wenger got rid of all that.
     
  4. Huxley

    Huxley Active Member

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    A - A reputation for winning countless trophies?

    B - A reputation for introducing a nutritious breakfast?

    It's a tricky one but I'm still going for option A. :winner
     
  5. HappilyLost

    HappilyLost Registered User

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    Arsene's Wenger "lack" of success has more to do with Chelsea's money rather than his inability to manage.

    Not sure how old the OP is, but having a club who at the time who had the money to buy anyone they wanted was novel.

    Arsene Wenger isn't particular rated in the same category as Alex Ferguson, but he is definitely one of the best managers to have managed in the Premiership.

    To say it was falling apart when George Graham's defence went is nonsense as well, that defence hadn't won anything in 6 years from George Graham to Wenger, and no member of the invincible's team played under Graham.
     
  6. The Doc

    The Doc Registered User

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    Think your maths is out a bit their chief Wenger arrived in Sept 96, Graham won Cup Winners Cup in May 94 with Arsenal.

    So 2 years 4 months?

    Keown and Parlour played under both Graham and in the invincibles too.

    Other than that....spot on :p :laugh:
     
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  7. HappilyLost

    HappilyLost Registered User

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    I guess I'm not as old as you to remember such details :D ;) I was 8 when Wenger arrived.

    Keown was hardly as starter in the invincibles, he can't have been because I remember him being crap for Leicester down at The Den around that time.
     
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  8. Adam

    Adam Registered User

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    Been on the forum 2 weeks and already at it :laugh:
     
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Broken leg stuff

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    Wenger's time at Arsenal is kinda split into two halves, the first half of his tenure was absolutely incredible, second half was a gradual decline.

    I still think he did pretty well for most of that second half though, apart from maybe the final couple of years.
     
  10. Huxley

    Huxley Active Member

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    Even that early period was a failure by the standards set by Fergie. They blew everyone away in 98 then spent three years watching United walk away with the league. Three entire seasons. Then they produced the invincibles in 2004 but Mourinho turned up and Wenger quickly became a nothing, also ran.

    And I still say that defence created by Graham was a major factor in their early success.

    Post 2005 we got to see Wenger's real talents as a manager.
     
  11. A Gooner

    A Gooner Registered User

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    Nice to see Adrian Durham has signed up to FF :laugh:

    96 to 06, Wenger was fantastic. Yeah sure, he inherited Graham's defence. Won two doubles with them, something Graham didn't do. Whilst we didn't win in Europe we became a far bigger presence in the bigger European competitions. A final in the CL and Europa.

    Overall 7 trophies in 10 years. Something not to be scoffed at imo.

    2005 to 2013, he doesn't get enough credit for. I cannot stress enough how dwarfed financially we were by not just Chelsea and City but Spurs, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man Utd....all these clubs were spending more money than Arsenal. In that period, Arsenal's net spend was £35m positive!

    Dealing with a stadium to pay off and financial doping of some his competitors, he still managed to keep his team semi competitive, top 4 consistent and regulars of the CL knockouts....it's remarkable to me how he doesn't get more credit for it. Especially when you see how fawned over Pochettino is for effectively doing the same job at Spurs.

    The decline ironically started when he was free to spend. Ozil, Sanchez, Xhaka, Mustafi, Lacazette were all big signings....and it just didn't work out. And yet.....won 3 trophies in 5 years as well as making another two finals :laugh: Not bad for a decline!
     
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  12. Jason

    Jason Spurs optimist

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    Not overrated in the slightest. Arsenal probably kept him too long but he did an incredible job there.

    The one stain on his CV, and indeed Arsenal's, is the lack of success in Europe. Domestically there have been few better. Three league titles and multiple cups shouldn't be scoffed at.
     
  13. Dickie Cooper

    Dickie Cooper Super Duper Dickie Cooper

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    Completely agree. And as I already said people need to realise the job he did "behind the scenes" in terms of sports science and psychology. Things that he pioneered in the English game and now is an integral part of every top club. When Wenger came into Arsenal and got the team playing the way it did, and winning the way it did was nothing short of revolutionary. People mention the George Graham back 4 - and fair enough, but George Graham (effective as he was) didn't have that swashbuckling attacking flair. Wenger's early teams had it all.

    Sanchez was a cracking signing! Ozil was decent in the beginning. Lacazette's okay... but the other pair are poor. I think Wenger's policy of continuing to try and unearth the next gem from nowhere hit him hard. There are only so many players from the French second division you can sign at a top club! :laugh:
     
  14. smogtilldeath

    smogtilldeath Registered User

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    Wengers record looks better every day considering the state they now find themselves in .

    I always admired wenger . Spent comparatively a lot less than other clubs around them and they played brilliant football and even won trophies doing it . I remember they destroyed us at Highbury

    always pissed me off how many of the supporters were so disrespectful to his end of tenure . Well and truly biting them on the arse now
     
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  15. Super_horns

    Super_horns WATFORD Till I Die
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    Sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side as they say.

    And also you don't know what you are missing till it's gone.

    A few clubs have pushed long serving managers out and not recovered.

    Or certainly they haven't replaced Wenger well.

    Still managed to win something and get to a European final in that time though!
     
  16. Pagnell

    Pagnell MISERABLE C**T

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    This is a bit like Liverpool post-Benitez. The fact we turned a bit to shit for a number of years afterwards didn't mean the decision to get rid of him was the wrong one, despite him having his fans amongst the loyal supporters who wanted him back. The same applies to Wenger, it was the right time to move on.

    Still can't see Arteta lasting the season though.
     
  17. smogtilldeath

    smogtilldeath Registered User

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    Disagree on the leaving front like . With wenger you at least got champions league football and they won the occasional trophy . Quite impressive considering some of the resources some of the clubs now have in the league .

    the disrespect some of their fans gave him was obscene . Claiming he was holding the club back . He kept the club competitive while paying back for the stadium and played some brilliant football while doing so
     
  18. Pagnell

    Pagnell MISERABLE C**T

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    Your point would be a good one if he hadn't failed to land CL football in his last two seasons. And I'd suggest part of the reason he decided it was the right time to leave is that he'd realised his consistent top 4 finishes were behind him.
     
  19. Bolton-John

    Bolton-John Registered User

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    i think alot of arsenal fans forget that he kept them as a top 6 club whilst making the club profitable, arsenal was literally the only club to not be in debt, im sure in one season they made a 20M profit, it might be nice to see a club bring in big names every transfer window but when the owners get bored of losing millions per year out of their pocket what happens when they get bored and sell up to someone who can't/won't pay the big bills? even big teams can fall.

    i think they took him for granted and they haven't been the same since.
     
  20. Pagnell

    Pagnell MISERABLE C**T

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    I don't think they have forgotten that. But it was still the right time for him to go.
     

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