Tottenham v Arsenal

Oliver and Taylor are supposed to be the elite refs in this league, and they've both made howlers just this weekend.

 

Anges response to the no penalty call.

Doesn't matter how I saw it. What matters is what I've said all along, games are not refereed in the stadium any more. They are refereed somewhere else and no one will convince me otherwise. It's not even re-refereed, it's refereed somewhere else. That's why I don't celebrate goals any more. I wait for somebody down the road. I just don't think referees in the stadium any more have that authority they used to make decisions. They just go 'you know what, I'll just wait and see what the bloke down the road thinks'. It's a shame, I don't like it but it's here to stay and I've got to accept it like everyone else.


Comments like this and the Nottm Forest and Liverpool situations this year are going to become more frequent the way things are going.

 

Doesn't need to be like rugby, needs to be like football and not use it at all.

 

Yeah, just bin it off.

The Kulu trip in the box which went from what I believe was a clear penalty to an Arsenal goal at the other end was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if it's "minimal contact" which was apparently what the VAR office said, that minimal contact was enough to cause the player in full time to be tripped up, it was a foul.

Similar to the midweek penalty for Newcastle which wasn't given in real time, for me it was a clear penalty.

Instead of this clear and obvious crap, give the referee the option to review it on the monitor and not have it reffed in an office somewhere down the road. Refs aren't giving as many decisions as they know VAR is in place but VAR is rarely overruling what they don't give so it's a waste of time.

For me, if there is no VAR in place, the ref is giving that penalty on Davies and is ruling out the Chelsea goal last night on what he has seen but in both instances is covering himself by letting the game go on.

Is he giving the Kulu one today without VAR, probably not, it's probably difficult to determine in real time that there has been contact and he hasn't just stumbled, but without VAR in place you can't really argue that and you get on with it. With VAR in place it is an issue when it isn't given.

On the game itself. I thought we were the better team for the majority. That being said, we were once again in a match a better team without doing much in the final third. Arsenal have played some of the best football in the league at times this season but they didn't really show much of that today but looked like they would score on every set piece. A draw would have probably been a fair result in the end but it was just one of those days.

 

I think he means, if City would drop points before we play them and we beat City while Arsenal keep winning. Us beating City puts the title in Arsenal's hands, "winning" it for them.

 

I think it'll go to the final game but the penultimate game of the season is Tottenham v Manchester City.

Theoretically Arsenal could win the league that night. They won't get to celebrate at our stadium at least but the record books would show that's when and where Arsenal won the league.

I don't think it'll come to that but it's a potential nightmare scenario. Realistically it'll probably go to the final day and hopefully we'll roll over for City anyway.

 

Comment was before City played today.

I agree it's pretty unlikely. In reality I expect it to go to the final day and I also think City will beat us anyway but it's a nightmare possibility nonetheless.

 

I'm not at all surprised even if it wasn't true, Oliver doesn't like to be proven wrong, or overruled.

 

Tricky game to ref. Not sure the Kulusevski one was enough for a pen personally but can see why the Spurs fans would want it, especially as it led to an Arsenal goal.

In terms of the third goal I think Vicario has to be stronger/smarter. It's not the first time that's happened to him this season. Just shove him out the way. He doesn't show anywhere near enough conviction on set pieces IMO.

That said, you know an identical one will be given next week. None of those should be fouls unless they're pinning the 'keeper down IMO.

No idea how the ref missed the actual pen. As blatant as they come.

 

That's the second stone waller Michael Oliver has refused to give this season in a big game that has implications for the title. Add in his refusal to send off Kovacic at the Emirates earlier this season, it feels ridiculous to me that he keeps being given these games.

 

Exactly my point. He routinely stays rooted to his line on set pieces then moans when attacking players have the audacity to stand in front of him. If he was on his toes and dominating his six yard box like most good 'keepers do he wouldn't have a problem. He didn't even try and move White out of the way, and there was another game earlier in the season where he did the exact same.

Can't remember if it was Henderson or Johnstone now but one of our 'keepers was guilty of it earlier in the season. It does my head in. You've got an advantage with your hands and you're more protected than outfield players so use it.

 

Probably partially in how he went down but I wasn't that bothered about the Kulusevski one. I don't think there'd have been much fuss but for the fact it immediately leads to a goal for Arsenal.

I think individually they're all rated quite highly but I think there have been plenty of questions marks from everyone on that defensive record, including from Spurs fans so I wouldn't go as far as saying people are quite happy.

The potential is there with the individual quality but whether it's going to be effective as a unit is still up for debate. All I will say is that I think age and experience does contribute to some of that. It's Vicario's first season in England, it's Porro's first proper season as first-choice right back, it's Van de Ven's first season in England, it's Udogie's first season in England. Some of those have only just broken in to their international sides this season too.

I don't think you can just throw a team together and expect it to instantly work. Some of it is going to get better over time just because they'll be more experienced and mature at this level, other aspects will need working on on the training ground.

I think there'll be more scrutiny next season but I think the happiness from Spurs fans is because they can see the potential in that squad and even those defensive areas. I hope they're around for a long time but realistically I can see most of that back five attracting better clubs than Spurs.

 

Yeah three of them have just arrived in England and both VdV and Udogie are young (VdV just turned 23 last month and Udogie is 21). Injuries definitely disrupted things but I think the drop in form of Bissouma as the defensive midfielder plugging holes left when marauding runs occur has to be considered too.

 

He's right, but then again if the leagues supposedly best referee doesn't see stuff like this there will always be a need for assistance.
VAR is shit but the Referees are shit too and noone with any say in football is willing to admit it because they might get a fine or a ban.
Yes refereeing isn't supposed to be easy, and PGMOL is doing everything in their power to make the rules more confusing instead of easier.
For all the bad stuff that money and corporate stuff has brought to football it should really professionalize the referee profession because it's not going to come from ex referees, just like ex footballers generally aren't great at running clubs.