Celtic & Rangers to join the Premiership

You've read the story...but what do you think? Would YOU like to see one or both of the Old Firm play in the English Premiership and, just importantly, do you think it could happen?
Dermot Desmond is an intelligent guy. Then again, he's also just launching a shares issue for the Celtic plc. There is no doubt that a Celtic in the Premiership would be a massive club - much more so than presently.

As things stand, it takes Ranger or Celtic THREE SEASONS to earn as much money as Bradford did in their last ONE disastrous season in the Premiership. Charlton Athletic this year will earn SIX TIMES more money than Rangers or Celtic from TV money. If this situation continues within the near future EVERY CLUB in the Premiership will be richer and have greater pulling power than the Old Firm. There is absolutely no doubt that joining the Premiership would be of great benefit to the Old Firm clubs. They would immediately multiply thier income, their image, their pulling power (thier wage-bill), their quality. Rangers and Celtic, though NOT in terms of ability (i want to stress that point), are BIGGER Clubs than nearly everyone in the Premiership! Man United are on a different level. Liverpool will always have a massive European reputation. But Arsenal? Chelsea? Leeds? Whilst these teams are advancing towards the best in Europe, the Old Firm are falling behind, despite all 5 being of comparable size (with the Scottish clubs having larger stadiums and fan-bases...). There is no doubt that a Premiership move would be good for Celtic, and Rangers if they also go down that route.

Would it be good for the rest of Scottish football? Well, what is certain is Scottish football would CHANGE...whether for the bettewr or not is personal judgement. It would decline in quality, no doubt about that, towards the standards now seen in the Irish leagues. But attendances for a Motherwell v. St. Johnstone game wouldnt go down because Rangers and Celtic arent playing elsewhere! In fact they may IMPROVE because the teams may be able to challenge for the league. Certainly the clubs would lose out on their twice-yearly bonanza sell-out crowd when the OF come to town...but this would be taken into account in that they would no longer have to spend beyond their means to TRY to keep in touch.

But this isnt enough.
What are the chances of it actually going ahead?
Well, if the opportunity was presented to them, the OF would jump at it in a flash. What would the Premiership think of it?

Already clubs such as Charlton and Preston have voiced their concerns - its understandable that many would see it as plain unfair if a Premiership season saw FIVE teams relegated to make way for the gatecrashers.
The Premiership as a COMPANY would absolutely LOVE it though. Aiming to be the best league in the world (and fairly close right now), the addition of two massive Scots clubs would undoubtedly improve their position, and further strengthen their position around the negotiating table with SKY. The Old Firm Clash is the only reason SKY fork out for the SPL matches as it is...but they still attract smaller viewing figures than ordinary Premiership matches, NOT because they are smaller matches but because the whole of England watchea Premiership matches. An Old Firm match within the context of the Premiership would become the biggest match of the season in Britain, for viewers as well.
And clubs at the top end of the table, the Man Uniteds, Arsenals and Liverpools, would also welcome the addition of big clubs to strengthen the league.

But could it all happen?
Every league has a 'constitution' that takes into account temas entering or leaving the division. This is *LIKELY*, in the Premiership, to involve something like a 16-4 vote FOR the new entry (at best - possibly even a 18-2 vote). This is unlikely. Basically any team that sees themselves as potentially worse than the Old Firm is NOT going to welcome with open arms two new teams to push them further away from the top.

I also think the timing of Dermot Desmonds declaration is interesting. What better way to sell more shares than to promise the club is going to get massively bigger and richer in the next few years?
If the statement hadnt aroused so much speculation over whether it is true or not, a publicity stunt like this would have been far too blatant to pull off.

As far as Im concerned, its not going to happen.
But wouldnt it be great...

 

btw theres already quite a discussion on this in the Scottish Football Forum.

If you cannae be arsed reading all that above (and I dont blame you, I know its long!), im just basically saying that it would be fantastic for the OF, fantastic for the Premiership as a business, but that its not likely to happen for 2 main reasons - firstly, any team worse than the OF will vote against it (it would knock them down closer to the drop!), and secondly...its timing is very appropriate.
Celtic are launching a shares issue right now. What better way to say "buy shares now and in a few years they'll be worth more" than by saying "we might play in a poor league now but in a few years we'll play in the goldmine that is the EPL!"


Havin said that...I have HEARD the English are wanting to restructure the Premiership into a two-tier league...INCLUDING the OF...

 

One last thing (I know its my 3rd post in a row...!)

What would you fans of smaller premiership clubs like Southampton, Derby, Charlton, West Ham even? think of this?
If it happened it may well send you lot closer to the Nationwide...

 

the two most violent unpleasant games i have ever attended featured the two glasgow teams.
(beardsleys testimonial & a testimonial at roker park.)

hadrian had the right idea about dealing with you scots.
bugger off and leave us alone.

 

not been funny trublu but us smaller clubs like WestHam would not be pushed closer to the nationwide with your inclusion.
been serious for a minute it is not going to happen.
They have their own league and it is up to the Scottish FA to sort it out.
You dont have teams from Germany joining the French league

 

ROY RACE - appropriate name that.
And funny you think its SCOTS who are the violent football fans! ha!

GAFFA -

the reason German teams dont join French leagues is because they are ruled by different governments! They are differnt countries!
Look on your passport and you'll see your nationality is BRITISH. Believe it or not, mine says that too! Because Scotland (and Wales and Northern Ireland) are NOT NATIONS (unfortunately). Neither is England actually. We're all BRITISH officially, and that means that strictly speaking (and you know how the European courts have been interfering with football in recent years...), the Scottish and English leagues could be deemed illegal, dissolved, and recreated in one whole British League.

Thats not possible! theres no problem with our league, the problem is clubs like yours get SIX times more money from TV rights than we do - but the OF are 2 of the biggest clubs is Britain! How can we compete in Europe when even teams like Charlton get £18m a season, and we get £3m?

I actually think West Ham are a decent team.
But if it did happen we WOULD finish above you. Dont try to deny that.

 

The premier league would be ****ing class! Half the league would consist of massive clubs:
Man U
Arsenal
Leeds
Liverpool
Chelsea
Celtic
Rangers
Newcastle
Spurs
Villa
On top of that youll have the teams who aint quite as big but could challenge for a UEFA spot:
Mackems
Smoggies
West Ham
Blackburn
Fulham
Everton (I know but still a big team)

Thats 16 teams who are all big clubs, surely it will make the Premiership the best league in the WORLD!

 

u know, if the euro courts did interfere and makes us combine our leagues? what would everyone think about it?
ok my team Hearts, would probably be in the 1st division tops, but i'd still rather see them play teams like man city etc, than Dundee and motherwell.

 

I think if it happens it will signal the end for the Scottish Premier league.
Celtic and Rangers need the money gained from being in the Premiership and the experience of playing decent sides every week.They will have a shock that's for sure.In fact I predict no higher than 6th for them in their first Premiership season if and when it happens.

 

For the first season cjm, that would be about right. But think about their money, resources and pulling power (esp now they'd be in the prem)... the potential is massive... they could become huge.

 

I think its quite a good idea cz Rangers and Celtic are too good for the SPL imo.

However, Wanderers are a kinda yo yo club - theyre either fighting against relegation orpushing for promotion and I've seen how hard it is for them in the Premier League. The thing is - they need the money they get out of being in the Premier League, if only for a season, in order to pay off debts or sign players capable of doing ok in Div One and Premier League.

Now, if Celtic and Rangers were to join the English Premier League then it would admittedly make the League even better as these are 2 teams who can play in Europe, but it would make it even harder for Bolton to gain promotion or even stay in the League. This wouldnt bother me so much if there weren't soooo much difference between the top 2 Div's in England, but the longer you spend in Div One then the harder it is to get out of it.

It seems a good idea in theory but if the Leauge is called the ENGLISH premier league then surely English teams should take priority?

 

Lets not forget that an English team, Berwick Rangers, play in the Scottish Leagues.

just thought i'd throw that one in <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

 

They should just leave it as it is for the moment. before very long theres gonna be a european league. perhaps then, when say man utd and ARSEnal etc leave the EPL then there is a natural doorway 4 the OF as i dont believe they r good nuff 2 be in the euro league when its 1st introduced

 

They should leave it as it is
Forget european super leagues that would just ruin the game
there was nothing wrong with our league
why do people want to change it

 

I don't think the inclusion of the Old Firm in the premiership would be too bad an idea, although I think it would be unfair to just allow them to go straight into the league. Perhaps if they were included in the Division 1 play-offs to justify their places it would be a better situation, as well as removing the need for five teams to be relegated to make room for them.

Do they really want to be in the Premiership, though? I don't know exactly what the monetary difference between the two leagues are, but I would have thought that the rewards of a successful European cup campaign (okay, not very likely for either of them at the moment) would outweigh the money you get for finishing mid table in the prem. And I do think that would be the case, it is very hard to judge the difference in quality when they are playing in a far weaker league, but I honestly think that Rangers and Celtic are not considerably better than anyone in the top half of our league. On a good day, pretty much any team in the league could beat them, and the quantity of matches against quality teams in our season would surely be a massive shock to the clubs, who are used to playing very few high level games (let's face it, the Old Firm derby matches are virtually the only games that matter in the SPL at the moment)

From the point of view of the smaller English clubs they would be two more obstacles to a season in the Premiership, but for Rangers and Celtic there is the risk that a bad start to their English careers may make it harder to attract decent signings - look what has happened to Newcastle and Spurs in recent years for proof of this - and they could become mired in mid table for years.

If I were them, I'd think seriously before giving up their cushy league and virtually guaranteed European place to become yet another one of Man U's bitches in the EPL...

[ 16 July 2001: Message edited by: AnatomyMan ]

 

I actually think that they will let Celtic join the Premiership and if they do then Rangers wont want to leave their league because it means they can actually win something again.
But, i do think that the likes of Rangers and Celtic wouldn't cope in the english premiership, they should really start lower down where they might be able to do quite well

 

I can't honestly see one of them moving across without the other following - the rivalry between them is so intense that I can't see them letting the other team join a potentially more lucrative and certainly higher profile league without them.
Lets face it - would they even want to? I'm sure that without the interest in the rivalry between these two teams the SPL would have no TV interest at all, and would be in the same situation as Wales and Ireland with regards to European football.

 

I really dont know whether this is a good or bad idea. It would probably improve competition in the english prem but would certainly decrease the value of the SPL. How would Southern fans travel to see their team away at Glasgow and how on earth would Celtic or Rangers fans travel to see their team play down south ? As others have mentioned, it may be stupid for rangers and celtic to join the english prem as they dont know how they will adapt to and perform in the league whilst giving away their certain european places from the SPL.