1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest - we need your help! Please read the thread linked below to help make FF a better place for all. Click here to learn how you can help
    Dismiss Notice

What's going wrong?

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Canary Fairy, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Canary Fairy

    Canary Fairy Bring me sunshine :)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15,627
    Likes Received:
    1,793
    Supports:
    The Canaries
    It might be too early to start concerning ourselves, but with no away points, as yet, (in my opinion) a clueless performance today, 3 tough games coming up and a very bad run of games at the end of the season, what do you think is the problem and what needs to be done to resolve it?

    I have to admit I don't know what it is. I would say there are alot of Hughton haters at the moment. Im not at that stage just yet, but big improvements are needed.

    Any ideas?!
     
  2. Dion

    Dion Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    7
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Despite being pretty awful second half today I don't think we're a million miles away. If today's anything to go by then the issue is that we don't have that final ball to trouble teams - Villa were a team who hadn't kept a clean sheet in 26 games was it? We didn't really look like breaking them down at any stage, which is pretty poor.

    Obviously the best man to provide that is Hoolahan but he doesn't seem to be flavour of the month for some reason, and we haven't brought anyone equivalent in, so when he doesn't play we don't have anyone to cut teams open and just seem to be very predictable. Snodgrass was someone who did a lot of damage last season but has been off his game so far this term. And to be fair, him, Pilkington and Hooper all started the season injured, so it was always possible it'd take a while to get the ball rolling.

    How would I change it? Not sure really. Hoolahan should be in the team at home and I think we should take a lot more risks away but I still think we're not too far away as long as Hughton gets them working on trying a bit of attacking flair in training.

    And I think we need to get behind the manager. The fans seemed to have made their mind up that they were going to have a go at him if things went wrong today and it doesn't exactly help. Hughton's by no means perfect but there's no point giving the manager £25m to spend and then writing him off after 5 games. There's an element of our fans who seem to be spoiled and need to get it into their head that Hughton's not going anywhere yet, so there's no point abusing him when we've got important games where we need to pick up points.
     
  3. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    I think we need to play exactly the same away from home as we do at home. Today we looked good going forward up until Villa scored and then in the last 20 minutes we also posed a good attacking threat. Only thing I do think is that when we do attack that we attack with more pace. We almost seem to wait for all our players to get into their written position. I'd like to see us counter attack much more, especially away from home. Villa's ability to counter attack teams so quickly and efficiently is a prime example of what we should be doing in my opinion.

    Completely agree with this.
     
  4. canary10

    canary10 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,771
    Likes Received:
    36
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Thought we'd be crap, said we'd go down.

    But yeah its so early, 5 matches in. Last season after 7 games we'd just lost to Chelsea and were struggling, we then went on a 10 match unbeaten run which basically kept us up. So I think its too early to start thinking whats gone wrong, yeah its not been a great start but we've got a win under our belts at least (hadn't this time last season)

    The main thing for me is just the boring old manager. I think we need someone fresh with a new attacking approach. The lack of goals is a concern again but as I said above its too early to start worrying too much about that. I always think 10/15 games is a good gauge, we'll be well into November by then and have played the majority of teams in the league.
     
  5. Super_horns

    Super_horns WATFORD Till I Die
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Messages:
    46,675
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Supports:
    Watford
    What sort of team will you field on Tuesday - basically the subs and other fringe players or a first choice side?
     
  6. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    It will be a team of subs and reserves I imagine. Maybe 1 or 2 starting 11 players. Something like this IMHO.

    Bunn
    Whittaker R.Bennett Ayala Garrido
    Fox Tettey
    Pilkington Hoolahan Olsson
    Becchio​
     
  7. Jason

    Jason Spurs optimist

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Messages:
    34,670
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Location:
    Peterborough
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    I do think Hughton's approach to games is the biggest issue, particularly away from home.

    With that said today he can't do much when Snodgrass is missing a penalty and both Van Wolfswinkel and Hooper are missing sitters. For the money spent you'd expect the latter two to both have scored the opportunities that came their way today.

    I think it's a matter of time until Hughton goes. Fans want to see good football, they can live with not being entertained so much if the results are there but when the results stop coming you bring the pressure on yourself.
     
  8. Super_horns

    Super_horns WATFORD Till I Die
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Messages:
    46,675
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Supports:
    Watford
    Midfield looks good - have to see who we play.

    Hopefully keep a strong side as we've found some form in the last 3 games.
     
  9. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Away games is a huge problem. Sort out our away form I reckon we'd be fine and no-one would be complaining.

    I imagine you'll win. We're usually useless in the cup, particularly against lower league sides. You lot are good at home, I'd genuinly be surprised if we won.
     
  10. Dion

    Dion Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    7
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Yes but you say that every year and most of the time you're wrong.

    Sadly you're probably right and Hughton may need a run like the one we had that started roughly this time last season. Seems as though a section of our fanbase would take losing 2-3 over a 0-0 draw these days. As much as I like being entertained I'd rather we stayed up but it hasn't raised Hughton's stock with our fans and I think he's lost himself a bit of time because of it.
     
  11. TheLoneRanger

    TheLoneRanger Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    He'll give Hooper a start surely?
     
  12. PUA

    PUA Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    Norwich
    First up we deserved a point against Hull and Villa - we had more than enough chance in both games to get at least a point, but I think what was mostly talked about on Canary Call was correct.

    I don't think the system suits the players at all. Game in game out we are not creating enough chances . For Hooper and RvW the kind of chances they will do well from is crosses from the byline, but Hughton insists on playing the wingers on opposite sides despite the fact in 5 games this has yielded just one goal and from 25 yards (this doesn't happen often).

    Againt Tottenham, the one good chance we had was RvW from a Redmond cross from (guess where?) the byline and it was great block from Rose. Today our best chance second half was a left footed Garrido cross from the left to Hooper.

    As is Snodgrass and Redmond cut inside and the cross is always too close to the keeper or won by a defender. Snodgrass must have put in 10 crosses today, the only one that came to close to working was when Redmond connected on the far post and RvW then chested it over. The rest were catching practice for Guzan.
    RvW and Hooper are not gonna score from the crosses going into the box at the moment and we don't really have a passer to make pin point though balls either.

    I hope Martin O'neil doesn't get the Ireland job as he may then still be available if Hughton goes. I think he tactically inept, I can't see him changing it as necessary. He's done well in the transfer market but I honestly don't think he has any idea what he is doing in terms of tactics. Does anybody know what they are? Does get everyone behind the ball and hope for 0-0 away from home count as a tactic?

    There are good players in the squad, if he stays we may stay up but it will be a scrap. If we get someone good in we may get top half.
     
    #12 PUA, Sep 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2013
  13. Canary Fairy

    Canary Fairy Bring me sunshine :)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15,627
    Likes Received:
    1,793
    Supports:
    The Canaries
    Just watched MOTD, even though I tried to avoid it. Hanson and Fowler both think we are in trouble. I am not saying they're right and know what they are talking about all the time, and it is very early days, but if we get dragged down from the start, it's going to be very difficult climbing back.

    I also think the players look demoralised. A lot of frustration from Pilkington to other players yesterday. I think the penalty fiasco as to who was going to take it was strange. Surely before the game, its made clear who takes any penalty given. All Hughton would say on Canary Call is 'we don't get awarded many penalties' and that 'he expected Wolfswinkel to take it'. Why Snodgrass would then step up is a mystery.

    Twitter going crazy about an imminent sacking of Hughton. Not going to take much notice of that. All I would say is that we've spent the money and I expected better things this season.
     
    #13 Canary Fairy, Sep 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2013
  14. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    I'd also like to see us do what Swansea have done under Laudrup and Southampton have done under Pochettino, which is press teams high up the pitch, both in away games and particularly at home.

    Southampton yesterday pressed at Anfield and got the win, you look at Swansea at Valencia in midweek and they did the same, we did something similar under Lambert, when he had players with no-where near the talent as some of our current players. I think if we were to really pressure teams rather than sit back and then try and get the ball off them when they're in our half it would work brilliantly.

    I think that the solution is:

    To press teams high up the pitch

    Play with 2 strikers upfront

    When we attack teams we attack with more pace

    Play exactly the same in away games as we do at home.
     
  15. PUA

    PUA Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    Norwich
    Pressing is a philosophy, they spent £12mil on Wanyama because he presses. The players they have bought in and the entire mentality of Southampton is to press. It's not gonna happen overnight and needs to be worked on extensively to get it right.

    It does need to happen more though, at Tottenham we had men behind the ball but they have no pressure and it was no surprise they picked us apart. You can't let quality players have time and space on the ball - we ALWAYS let them.

    It hasn't worked so far with Elmander and RvW

    Playing on the counter attack would help though we don't have huge amounts of pace, Redmond, RvW, Hooper and possible Pilkington would have to play for this.

    It's not possible, the crowd makes a difference and the mentality of the other team is different.
     
  16. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    We seemed to do it under Lambert. You look at our away performance against Swansea in our newly promoted season they didn't have a second on the ball because we pressed them so high up the pitch, and ended up winning 3-2.

    I do agree though that it would take a while to train the players how to press high up properly.

    But we haven't actually been playing 2 upfront. We've been playing with RVW up front and Elmander just behind. When we bought Hooper on in the second half against Villa he partnered Ricky and we looked much better in that last 25 minutes, and Hooper should've scored.

    True. But what I mean is that particularly away from home when we attack all our players sprint out of our box and the midfielders and attackers surge forward. Obviously the quicker the players the better but we're still capable of doing it with the players we have.

    Yes, but surely it has to be better than what we're doing at the moment. Stick 10 men behind the ball and hope the opposition can't score and that we scrape a 0-0. Which 8/9 times out of 10 doesn't work.
     
  17. aenima

    aenima Cavalry? I've sh*t 'em.

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    27
    Supports:
    Newcastle
    Hughton needs to stop tying himself to the in vogue 4-2-3-1. Norwich look like a team suited to a 4-4-2 formation to me, but for whatever reason they're not going for it at the minute. Elmander is a decent player, but I can't see him fitting into that playmaker role in a month of Sundays. The problem with playing a 4-2-3-1 is that so much relies upon that position, that if whoever is playing there doesn't function properly then the whole team becomes creaky going forward and it becomes hard to build attacking momentum.

    It's daft really, I'd say Newcastle were one of the few teams outside of the top 5 with the players that could be suited to a 4-2-3-1, with Ben Arfa at 10 and Cabaye/Anita deep, and we clearly don't fancy it at all, whilst elsewhere every man and his dog are shoehorning ill-fitting players into the system. If Hughton puts all his faith in van Wolfswinkel, Hooper and the wingers to supply them, I reckon Norwich would shoot up the league and could probably be up there with Southampton, Swansea etc. fighting to break in to Europe.
     
  18. canary10

    canary10 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    9,771
    Likes Received:
    36
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Yeah I don't think Elmander is really the answer, he certainly doesn't look good enough in the amc role, would much prefer Hoolahan if thats the system we'll play. I think he's just squad player really, ok option but looks a bit limited to me. I'd really love to see Hooper and RVW work together upfront, so I'm hoping thats what he'll go with.
     
  19. WBArgo

    WBArgo Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    11,059
    Likes Received:
    691
    I think you're a bit like us, not the best team in the league but probably won't go down.

    I also think you need a Hoolahan type player who can add a bit of creativity as that's what we've started to do with Sessegnon and it looked worth it. How is Redmond getting on? I've always thought he was a good player.
     
  20. NcfcDin

    NcfcDin Hold The Door

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Supports:
    Norwich City
    Redmond's probably been our best player so far this season. Man of the match against Everton. Brilliant performance and goal against Southampton. He beats people as if he's been a premier league player for years, only thing he does need to learn is when to beat the man and when to release the ball.

    And yeah, I agree. No matter how bad our form at the moment I don't think we'll go down. Hoolahan has played well tonight against Watford, and I imagine will be re-introduced to the first team before long. We did try and sign an attacking midfielder (Toivonen), in the transfer window but it fell through.
     

Share This Page