1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest - we need your help! Please read the thread linked below to help make FF a better place for all. Click here to learn how you can help
    Dismiss Notice

Youth Players & Loanees

Discussion in 'Chelsea' started by Gal_P, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,429
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    No idea who I'd want to sell Cech to. Italian club?
     
    #101 Gal_P, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2014
  2. Dan

    Dan Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    14,123
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    Supports:
    Chelsea FC
    Yeah I think it makes sense selling Cech... But maybe he's happy to stand down for Courtois. Cech could play in FA cup, carling cup and a few premier league games.
     
  3. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    As I've said before, I don't see a future for Courtois at Chelsea. There is no reason to sell Cech and replace him with a keeper who has no PL experience. Cech is having the time of his life right now. I know Courtios is good, and I've no doubt he'd be able to handle the PL, but switching keepers is fraught with risk at the best of times. Cech may be ten years older than Courtios, but that's not saying much - Cech can play for another 8 years, and another wunderkind will be along in that time.

    The whole issue is really being forced by Courtois, who has said he won't sit on the bench. Well, sorry, but that might well be where Chelsea need him to be right now. It's time to be a team player and take his time, or ship out. The latter is the most obvious answer, imo.
     
  4. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,429
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    It's easy enough to say that but these goalkeeping prodigies don't come around every decade. TC is a very unique keeper in the sense he has all this experience and is still only 21!

    How many goalkeepers (in football history) can you name that have won all these personal accolades and club trophies at the age of 21? There may be a couple but that's the point. There aren't many.

    Cech was 23 when he won his first PL title and top league golden gloves award. TC has already broken records in La Liga and he's not even at Real or Barca.

    For Me, Cech and Courtois are at a very even level currently with Cech edging it with the extra decade of experience.
     
  5. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    I don't doubt his quality. But we already have great quality. Courtois must accept being a team player, and fighting for his place, or go I'm afraid. I said the same about Lukaku. He should have stayed and fought for his place - had more faith in himself. If Lukaku has stayed he'd be our number 1 striker right now, imo.

    I see no compelling reason to bench Cech - he's playing brilliantly and breaking records as he goes. If Courtois is demanding being first choice right now, then I'm afraid it's a no from me. No player should made such a demand, the decision on who plays sits with the manager. Courtois should come to Chelsea and allow Jose to choose.
     
  6. Lord Celery

    Lord Celery Tossing salad

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    England
    Yeah that would work. Juve, Inter, Milan. To be fair maybe even Athletico in Spain... but could they afford him? We could use Cech in a swap with Costa.
     
  7. Lord Celery

    Lord Celery Tossing salad

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    England
    You're not seeing the bigger picture Osgood - we have Courtois who is potentially the best keeper of his generation and could be better than Cech.

    Would you really want us in 5 years time to be spending £20 million on a keeper who isn't as good as Courtois whilst he plies his trade for one of our European rivals and is picking up numerous personal accolades? And all for what - because you don't like a player who doesn't want to sit on the bench? Trust me - it's better to have players hungry for the first team than those who are happy to sit on the subs bench.

    Cech is quality as a player and person but sometimes you have to make tough decisions... and in this case there is no compelling reason to choose Cech over Courtois. Put your sentimentality aside for a moment and see sense old chap.
     
  8. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    But it's not about sentimentality - it's about performances. Cech performs for us on the world stage week in and week out. He's doing the job. He's a known quantity, and is therefore to be trusted. He has many years at the top level still to play. He works well within our defensive unit, and trains with them daily - they have great understanding and history, and he gets on with the manager.

    Now Courtois may be a lot of things, but he can't claim any of that. Changing a keeper is a big task, almost unique on the field. I'd like to keep Courtois - but the trouble is, from what I understand, he is not willing to bide his time until the moment is right. Such an ultimatum should only be met with a negative response, imo. We need team players, not prima donna's who demand to play week in and week out. No matter how good he is, or we think he might be in the PL.

    I'd feel differently if the keeper position was questionable for us - but I don't think it is. I can't guess what talented goalkeepers will come along in the next five to ten years. But I'm pretty sure one will that can replace Cech.

    While it's great to a hungry player, it's better to have a proven one who already has built the understandings with our personnel, who knows our ways of playing, who has worked with our manager. One who performs admirably. In truth, Courtois needs to get off his high horse and come to Chelsea and accept he might spend a season or two on the bench, or playing a handful of games as he acclimatizes and becomes part of the social fabric of Chelsea. Instead of that he's full of demands it seems. Well, there's only one way to respond to that - sell him. He wants something we don't need right now - a new keeper. As I've said before, I don't see a future for him I'm afraid.

    I will add that this is also a problem with these long-term loan deals. The players don't feel the same bond with the team that owns them, they build them elsewhere. If any other player at Chelsea demanded to be a starter then Jose would soon kick them to the kerb!
     
    #108 Osgood, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2014
  9. Dan

    Dan Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    14,123
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    Supports:
    Chelsea FC
    There isn't even that many world class goalkeepers around... There's only Neuer, Buffon, Casillas, Cech and Courtois off the top of my head. Surely it's worth keeping Courtois and be sorted for the next decade.

    I don't want us to go into a situation like we did with Drogba. Since he's left we've been struggling to find a good replacement. If we keep Cech and sell Courtois, once he starts to degrade we'll struggle to find a world class replacement.
     
  10. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    We need both. Either way we'd be giving a team a World Class keeper. We need both, so if one gets injured the other steps in. But it's going to take both keepers accepting the other is there. Neither can demand to be the starter.
     
  11. ItsInTheBlood

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    62
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    I agree with Osgood about Courtois, he needs to understand that he can't just waltz straight into the Chelsea lineup and until he does he's not someone you want around the club, especially from a keeper who is meant to be the level headed one - or at least that's what we're getting from Cech atm.

    I'm also against selling Cech but that's more to do with a loyalty point of view, we berate footballers for having no loyalty but fans are just as bad. Cech has dine absolutely nothing to warrant being sold, in fact he's probably done the opposite, so for that reason I don't want to sell him. If Courtois were to come back and prove to be the superior keeper in training and cup games then fair enough Cech could go but that's not happening...
     
  12. Lord Celery

    Lord Celery Tossing salad

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    England
    Sorry but that's silly. Courtois deserves a little more respect - he's proved himself enough at Athletico. Also - people are talking about his attitude... he was purchased and immediately sent on loan for multiple seasons. He hasn't moaned once... just got on with it and proved what a great keeper he is. Why do you think a keeper in his position would want to now play second fiddle to someone else and sit on the bench?

    Osgood is painting Courtois to be some kind of maverick who's bad attitude will tear the club apart - it's ridiculous. The situation is that we have an embarrassment of riches and we have to make a tough, but sensible, decision. That decision should be to make Master Courtois our number 1.
     
  13. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    I'm doing nothing of the sort. It's odd you talk about giving Courtois respect, when you're giving Cech very little. I've said that no player should dictate whether they're a starter or not. They should come into the team, fight for their place, and let the manager decide.

    We have had Cech in goal for ten years or so. Ten years of sterling performances, and winning everything there is to win. He's having the season of his life right now. So what sense does it make to say "Oh, we have a 21 year old who's done well elsewhere, sorry Cech, you're on the bench." Not that's ridiculous.

    There is no evidence Courtois is better than we've got. We don't have a keeper problem. In fact, we have a fantastic keeper who just broke the club record for clean sheets. And we're going to change that because of some kid who has been out on loan? Madness.

    Courtois should drop his insistance that he won't sit on the bench. He should then come to Chelsea and fight for his place. If he shows Jose he's better than Cech, Jose will play him instead. A player should never, ever, decide who plays. That's the managers job. And you don't make changes when nothing is wrong - so he might have to wait a bit, because Cech is doing great. I don't know why some don't value experience higher. On experience alone Cech trumps Courtois. Courtois is the future, the future is not now.
     
  14. Lord Celery

    Lord Celery Tossing salad

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supports:
    England
    The best thing we can do with Courtois is tie him down to a long contract and send him on loan for another 3 seasons.

    By that time it will be a much easier decision and we can send Cech out to pasture.
     
  15. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    That would be perfect, but I get the feeling Courtois is demanding things change now. He's been on loan for a few seasons, and to be fair when you keep loaning a player out to the same team they're bound to feel a sense of belonging. As I've said before, I think we'll lose him - but I'd love to be wrong.
     
  16. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,429
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    There's no direct quotes from him that he's demanding anything but I think he's well in his right to expect to start. He's proven his one of few World Class goalkeepers in the world and World Class players start. Simple as.

    I agree with what you're saying about loaning him to the same club for too long too. He's clearly enjoyed his spell in Madrid and had the best moments of his career there - which in turn has built a strong bond with Atletico Madrid and their fans. Had we not owned him, and tried to buy him from Atletico, I get the impression he wouldn't even want to leave Spain.

    From his point of view he's only leaving Atletico to honor his contract. So while he always knew what would happen you can't blame him for wanting to be number 1 if he's leaving a club he's clearly happy at.

    It really does put us in an awkward situation. If we were to loan him out again (to any club) we'd have to tie him down to a new long-term contract. I'd imagine in the summer he'll have 2 years left on his current contract and that's already getting close to the 'player-power' area - should he decide to play that card.

    On the other hand though we have a keeper who's been one of the top 3 goalkeepers in the world for over a decade (even being the number 1 keeper at times). He's highly consistent, able to make important saves (especially after not touching the ball for long periods) and a model professional. To sum him up his just a reliable, world class keeper. What more could you want?

    No matter what spin you put on it, dropping Cech for Courtois would be extremely harsh on Petr. Especially when you consider that Cech is actually the better goalkeeping at the moment - due to the extra decade of experience he has at the top level (which even includes 2 CL Final penalty shoot-outs). A decade of service to the club should never be overlooked.

    But if we go with the play your way into the team approach, just how long will Courtois be on the bench and playing Cup games? That approach just doesn't work when the number 1 goalkeeper doesn't need replacing. Tottenham even struggled with that approach with Lloris and Friedal!

    I really have no idea what we should do. I'm a massive fan of Cech but the idea of selling the best young player in any position sounds ludicrous. I guess an ideal scenario would be to loan Courtois out for 2 seasons in the PL. It would be one final test to see how ready he is for us and would also act as an introduction to the 'fast paced and rough PL'. So he could make his 'dea Gea mistakes' and learn from them without it costing us results.

    The only team that would be at a level worth playing at would probably be Everton. While it's easy to say we'll loan him to Everton for 2 years I'm sure it's not that simple. Will Courtois be happy leaving a team fighting for the La Liga title and playing CL football for a team who's most likely going to finish 6th/7th and play Europa League football?
     
  17. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,429
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    So Romeu is out for a month after a knee injury in training. Surely that's the end of his Chelsea career? I can't see how he can impress his way back into our plans while he's injured.

    Shame. Was always a player who showed flashes of real potential.
     
  18. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    What's with the guys knees? Sounds bad to be honest, I'm not sure he's up to the vigors of play.
     
  19. Osgood

    Osgood American/Plazzy fan type

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    4
    Supports:
    Chelsea
  20. Gal_P

    Gal_P The Special One

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    16,429
    Likes Received:
    2,557
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    Good to see Bamfordinho still scoring after stepping up a league. Hopefully he shows enough to suggest he's ready for a PL loan! :eeek

    Don't think we should rush the loan unless we're sure he's ready for it though. What a goal last night though.
     

Share This Page