I thought I'd make this to respect @Vito Andolini's wishes to keep it out of the thread about the tight-arses. Brianna Ghey, a poor girl that's been horribly murdered, has the final denigration of having to be labelled as a male on her death certificate. Why? Because people are pushing back on a bit of paper that states your preferred gender. For what reason? Moral panic and fear. RIP Brianna.
Thank you. It's definitely a subject that deserves its own thread. And just to point out I'm neither in favour of or against any person who transitions etc. Being born in 1982 I sadly remember even myself and friends say words like 'poof' or 'queer' when these things were in the social vocabulary. All power to anyone who goes through such a thing and RIP to Brianna.
I think the bigger issue here is that she was murdered rather than what was written on some paper, which is quite irrelevant to her now.
It's not irrelevant to her family and friends who want to pay their respects to her life. What a stupid comment. We can't comment on an ongoing investigation.
No shit. The point is she can't be recognised for who she was. You can pay respects to someone who was known as a number when they were found, but that doesn't mean they weren't robbed if their identity and humanity.
So a word on her death certificate robs her of her identity to those who knew her? Her friends and family can't just ignore that and remember her for who she was? Even we, people who didn't know her, are referring to her according to how she wanted to be identified when she was alive, regardless of what her death certificate says.
Yes, it does. It says that society refuses to acknowledge her. Stop trying to downplay it to be edgy. Identity matters. If it's only a "word on a death certificate" then it shouldn't matter if it says what her chosen name was, should it?
Death certificates don't list your gender, they list your sex, which is based on biology and not identity. Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Do you know how to do the bare minimum of research to comprehend an issue? Death certificates issued by the Registrar do include gender. What you are referring to is a medical certificate. Death certification
I'm looking at a death certificate right now, as well as looking up a bunch of examples online, where they only list sex and not gender. Not sure if Scottish ones look different or not. Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
No you haven't. But I only popped in here to provide the information that destroys your argument, not interested in engaging any further as it's only a matter of time before a differing opinion sends you into a frenzy of insults and abuse once more. Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
From the link I posted to you: Well and truly "destroyed" my argument there, mate You could simply just read up on the government's website too, but no, you go ahead with your knowledge. Imagine swaggering in about an issue that impacts so many lives, being concerned about "destroying" an argument ahead of the issue (concerning a dead girl) and being completely wrong. Well done.
Excuse me, but who are you to decide what's important to her and her family? From my understanding (and I could be wrong) if the Gender Recognition Act that Sturgeon attempted to pass was implemented UK-wide, the death certificate would list the person's self-identified gender. From my point of view, I don't see any issues with a legislation that provides that being passed. I don't particularly see how this can be "exploited" and find a lot of the arguments that it can to be nonsensical. The trans community definitely seem to pretty unanimously agree that this sort of legislation would be dignifying for them: and I don't see why we should distrust that, or argue against it.
I am guessing at 16, she hadn’t had the full gender reversal op? For me, the saddest thing is she was murdered. She was young and had her whole life ahead of her. Without getting into any arguments, a death certificate does just specify male or female. I too have one right in front of me. If she hadn’t transitioned completely, then I’m guessing her death certificate said male? It can’t say female, because she wasn’t, only out of choice. This isn’t me being narrow minded or ignoring who she was, or trying to make a point, believe me. What is going to happen to death certificates where someone is gender fluid, yet they have female or male sex parts? A birth certificate is used in the death registration process. It’s all going to get very complicated. Also my passport states ‘F’ for female. Again, it’s all going to get very complicated. Sorry if this is offensive to anything that poor girl went through. I’m not here to judge or get on my high horse.
It's not that complicated, it's just that it's a relatively new construct that's come into public vogue, so other constructs with forms and documents are naturally going to lag behind. The Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) would just allow the person to be known by their preferred gender in these documents, whether that's in the sex or gender categories, at least until documents can be modernised. Her medical death certificate will announce her sex as male, as that is her medical construct as she'd not been through surgery yet. The issue here is Brianna isn't eligible to apply fir the GRC due to an age barrier preventing her applying. This is what the Jocks sought to remedy, but we're rebuffed by Westminster.
My understanding of the argument here is less that its about what a death certificate says currently, and more what it should say instead, focusing around the Scottish legislation blocked by Sunak last month. I dont think it necessarily needs to be so complicated it can't be resolved - my answer to the examples you've listed are to just allow people's self-identified gender to be listed on a death certificate/passport. I'm not sure I can think of major difficulties that would cause
I can guarantee her life was more important to them than a word written on a piece of paper, which is incredibly insignificant by contrast. If they want to use that as an outlet to vent their anger and sadness then that's their choice, but it's clear what the real issue is here.
