I would have put up a poll, but people will vote different ways for different reasons and there are too many 'factions'. For instance there are pro-union non-Scots who fear a split, anti-union non-Scots who would love a split, pro-union Scots with SNP running through their veins and pro-UK Scots to whom the SNP are anathema. The ongoing Sturgeon/Salmond saga has been unsavoury and seems to have polarised opinions in Scotland even more. So should they stay or should they go? Will England benefit from their going? Will Scotland benefit from their going? Will it result in a hard border and trade problems? Would an independent Scotland be welcomed into the EU? Would the UK survive if the Scots broke away? Etc. etc. etc.
Let them go and they must be made to pay their own way on day one,no money from England for their NHS and defence and they should have to pay their share of the national debt.
Not too fussed if they go. Free prescriptions, free tuition (only for Scottish and EU students...), free sanitary products...all paid for by us. The percentage of spending sent to Scotland each year is larger than the percentage of revenue they bring in and larger than their percentage of the UK population. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Couldn’t really care less tbh. However, I hope there isn’t a another referendum just yet as that will be the news for the next 2 years at least not sure why they would have another ref now considering the last 1 was only 6 years ago. The SNP will always find another reason to the run it, whatever it is. Brexit is not really an good reason. Scotland voted to stay part of the union, and as a union we voted out
I think a country being given the chance to go their own way is always interesting, I would be sad to see Scotland leave the union but I would not begrudge the decision... and I would be interested to see how Scotland progresses as an independent country. Scottish people are great and the country itself is pretty cool. Saying that I do find the idea we have a second independence referendum in such a short timeframe a bit ridiculous. You should take the chance when it comes.
As an enticement to stay, the Prime Minister said the only way for Scotland to ensure it's EU membership was by rejecting independence, among a whole bunch of other nice things. Regardless of what the rest of the UK wanted, staying in the EU was a leading campaign promise made to them by the PM & others who were high up in the government, and they've been swindled. I think they've got perfectly valid reasons for wanting another referendum, seeing as the EU referendum came only 21 months after their own referendum. Let's not pretend none of us wouldn't feel aggrieved and seek a refund if we were missold something.
So you think Scots voted to keep the union so they could stay in the EU. That’s fckin ridiculous considering we were going to have a referendum. How can the PM ensure this when the people are due to decide. It’s an excuse to re-run it. anyone without a horrible bias can see this. I mean, they are called the Scottish nationalist party after all. People voting to keep the union purely to stay in the EU are idiots. However, that’s not why people voted stay or leave is it!
Yeah, is there any evidence that people voted 'No' in 2014 on the basis that the UK stays in the EU? Scottish independence: poll reveals who voted, how and why This article suggests EU membership played a role in 12% of 'Yes' voters votes and 15% of 'No' voters. So it was the 7th most important issue for 'No' voters. Not sure that warrants a second referendum tbh....
The Scots did vote at complete odds with the rest of the UK in the EU referendum, so I think it's daft to understate how much of an issue it is for them.
It was the 7th most important voting issue for 'No' voters in 2014, and the 8th most important for 'Yes' voters. In 2013 David Cameron said there would be a referendum on EU membership by 2017 if the Conservatives stayed in power following the 2015 election. I am not denying it is an important issue but at the end of the day, it doesn't feel like one that warrants a second referendum so soon. Considering the issue wasn't decisive the first time round. Can go on about Scotland voting overwhelmingly to stay in the EU but the turnout was below the overall average in the 2016 referendum.
They were also promised devo-max "soon", but none of that has happened either - minor issues though. Politically, there's never been a bigger rift between Scotland & England + Wales. It's for the Scots to decide entirely, but I'm curious as to what in your mind would warrant a second referendum?
A fair bit more than 6 or 7 years passing since the last one? At the end of the day if Scottish voters didn't ditch Labour in droves in 2015 then you would never have had a referendum in 2016 on EU membership.... these Scottish voters willed the EU referendum on themselves. And don't forget that to vote to leave the UK in 2014 was also technically a vote to leave the EU.
Well we certainly haven't seen a generation pass since the last referendum. That said they can have a referendum every month for me, until they get it right.
A 'generation' is pretty ambiguous for politics though. Is it 20 years? 30 years? 50 years? Until we think they've calmed doon enough to make voting stay a formality? English independence should be the next referendum IMO, I think it'd be one thing that would get universal support all over the UK
It's certainly not 6/7 years? 20 is reasonable? Better yet, give England a referendum on Scottish independence!
20 sounds reasonable. And no chance, it gives the rose-tinted luvvies like Rory the Tory another chance to start an impassioned unity campaign
If you offered the SNP leadership independence, but told them they couldn't join up with the EU... do you reckon they'd take it? I did read there are technical caveats that would stop them joining up as an independent nation, to do with debt I believe.
The most interesting thing in this debate, is the brexiteers (MPs) who claim Scotland should stay, despite the reasons for Scotland leaving are exactly the same reasons as why the Brexiteers said the UK should leave the EU. (Lack of control, lack of sovereignty).
I think you'd definitely be looking at less than 20. There was an 18 year gap between the devolution votes of 1979 and 1997, and there was a huge chance in the levels of support for devolution. (Scotland 51% > 74%, Wales 20% > 50%) I don't think time should play a factor though, if there's enough demand and support for them to have an independence referendum, then they should have one. In the polls in the leadup to the 2014 referendum, they had won one poll, and only won three in the entire build up to the vote. There was never consistently a majority of voters for Yes, and No's lead was as high as 30%, and consistently double figures up until the last month. Since then, polling shows that support for Scottish independence has grown to a significant extent. That's all that should be needed to justify a referendum. Yes won every poll between June 2020, and February 2021. If they are able to regain the double figures points lead that they were holding in the polls for another significant period of time, then democratic interests would suggest that another referendum should happen. If they lose ground in the polls, and No is consistently winning, then it wouldn't be necessary.
Not quite. The UK was a net contributor to the EU, Scotland isn't a net contributor to the UK despite what Ian Blackford says. All the SNP's data assumes that all oil and gas revenues from the North Sea would 'belong' to Scotland, a claim the Westminster government has never agreed with. On top of that within 20 years oil and gas use is going to be more than halved with both the domestic heating and automotive industries committed to stopping their use. There's also the issue of national debt, again Westminster would insist an independent Scotland must take its share of debt with it, they can't expect to simply walk away from hundreds of millions of debt incurred during their time in the Union. That may ironically prevent them applying for membership of the EU, along with having to join the Euro as they wouldn't have their own currency.
