The Biden Administration (and other American news)

There are camps and you're a naive blind complicit moron

 

Ok, show me some evidence then that transgender people get rounded up and sent to actual conversion camps.
I'm sorry that the truth isn't as outrageous as you'd like it to be. Y'know, conversion therapy is immoral enough, you don't need to spice it up with some bollocks about them recreating the holocaust in modern day America.

 

There are facilities that run conversion therapy. This is a fact. They are church run venues. It is not difficult to see these being expanded to larger camps. Camps in the American sense like the troubled teen camps. Jesus christ you are such an apologist for anything vaguely right wing.

 

It's not a fact at all. Almost all conversion therapy in the US is administered by independent therapists, not in camps or facilities. But nice of you to roll it back and admit your initial assertion that conversion camps exist in America is in fact nonsense and it's just something you've imagined to happen in the future, maybe.
I haven't apologised for anything, I have actually agreed that conversion therapy is wrong. I just can't stand people coming out with clearly bullshit hyperbole, especially when it's that exact kind of rhetoric that has led to the kind of hysteric responses we've seen to the election results. We saw the same thing among young liberals in 2016, crying and screaming, saying they feel like their lives are threatened. Guess what...it was untrue then, and it's untrue now.

 

Heard this a lot. Seems pretty stupid when you consider the alternative who won would seem to have stauncher support for Israel.

It was a bit of a being between a rock and a hard place for them on this issue.

 

Knock off the quibbling dude (funny how you've completely stopped arguing about other camps too). Conversion camps in some guise are a fact, you're just desperate to have a gotcha against "young liberals". They're simply run on the downlow/in disguise. Come visit a southern state or come visit any big American city and talk to LGBTQ people from the South and ask them if they or anyone they know was sent to one of these camps. Here's a Reddit thread in case you genuinely want to know.

 

I didn’t misunderstand anything.

Their options were keep in the bad people or get someone else in that’s even worse. In the end they did neither….but the end result is the latter.

And imo, a stupid move

 

Stopped arguing about other camps? Concentrations camps in general just don't exist in the US. If you want to describe a detention facility as a camp you go right ahead, but it would be like describing Harmondsworth as one.
Is a Reddit thread full of anecdotal evidence all you can come up with as proof they exist? One of the people in there is trying to claim that "conversion rape" of lesbians including minors is legal in certain states if it takes place as part of therapy and they have parental consent

I'll say it again - I know conversion therapy takes place, I agree that it is utterly immoral, but the idea that people are systematically rounded up and sent to concentration camps for conversion therapy is just utter nonsense, the idea that it's going to become government policy to do so under Trump even more so.

 

As I've already pointed out, Trump wants to deport random people using the Alien Enemies Act that was used to intern Japanese-Americans. If you want to deport random people, who are going to be of one ethnicity or definitely all going to be non-white people, then they're no longer "detention facilities". You can come up with as many synonyms as you like, but the point's not going to change in terms of being correct.

I mean, what do you want me to do, infiltrate one of these places just so I can prove it to @saint_clark on FF? It's not like you cared anyway when I did provide you a rock-solid source in Reuters for my previous point, you just stopped responding to me and then started playing pedant with @Guyett instead.

Why are you focusing on just one comment when there are 200+ comments in that thread, several of which do talk about camps, anyway. And you seem to take everything Trump says at face value, so why the skepticism now? Talk about double standards. If you really want more proof, you can simply search for conversion camps within the LGBT subreddit and I'm sure you'll find more testimonies. And here's another Reuters article on this.

Trump himself doesn't give two flying ****s about religion, I agree. But he is married to the Christian right politically and they do want stuff like this.

 

Long post, so brace yourself. I actually have three other big points to make but I've left them for another post due to time and as this post is already long enough. However, these points do answer your question about what's specific to Trump that makes people support him so much. The final and equally important points are all to do with Democratic incompetence which I'll talk about in another post some time later. All voting data taken from CNN's exit poll. The first three reasons are -

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1. Race – Can't ignore it, like it or not, and I genuinely don't like it. People will vehemently deny it, but America has always been and still is obsessed with race. The last time a majority of White voters voted for the Democrats was 1964, which says it all. Yes, you heard that right, 1964, when the Civil Rights Act was passed. That’s like if white British voters never once voted for Labour the most in an election post, I dunno, Enoch Powell or whatever the British equivalent of 1964 is (what is it, if any, out of curiosity?). It’s also why I said 10 days back that Harris chasing the white moderate/white woman vote was stupid as white women have consistently voted Republican, and they ultimately did it again by going for Trump 53-45.

Being white, honestly simply even looking white if you aren’t white, gives you automatic social status, cache, and acceptance from other people. LBJ’s quote sums it up well – and Trump definitely gives people permission for just general bad behavior and groups to look down upon old school style. But it’s not just race, there’s much more to it, which brings me to…

2. Culture/Education – We’re a country of individualists, doers, strivers, dreamers, achievers or at least that’s what we like to think anyway. In reality, all that means is that it is, along with the obsession with race, yet another impediment to any real class solidarity in this country because as that Steinbeck quote goes – “the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” Which is why they support someone like Trump and view him as their champion.

More importantly though is that there is a firm cultural bifurcation (which at least somewhat correlates to class, though not strictly by any means) between college-educated and non-college educated Americans. Trump is a master of speaking the language of the latter (think Americana) and speaking in the tone of the latter. While the mostly college-educated Democrats in contrast are completely clueless on how to speak to them, but also because the latter class is also simply unwilling to listen to college-educated people. To Trump supporters, Trump speaks like a fellow colleague or friend, like a normal person they interact with daily. While college-educated Democrats sound like their distant HR-speaking bosses, or managers, or supervisors, or "effete, effeminate government bureaucrats who prevent them from doing stuff". And so, they perceive the "billionaire" Trump as their champion against the establishment, and the non-white, middle-class raised Harris as a coastal elite and the establishment. Even though the reality is the opposite.

3. Social Media/The Internet – Not trying to pick a fight with you, or personally attack you, but the notion that you can somehow out-argue blatantly wrong arguments on social media/the internet is a quaint/dead one these days, and this election result proves it. If you platform them, they're going to spread. Elon Musk boosting Trump's sheer nonsense is the obvious example but just in general far-right talking points have taken over all social media and no amount of disproving them prevents their normalization, which has only increasingly happened ever since 2015. We’re living in a post-facts, post-reality world, and that only benefits Trump.

Not to mention, Russia and China also help amplify them or inject their own bots into online spaces. So, there’s basically next to no support for any left-wing talking points in general spaces online. Plus, his son Barron Trump gave him tips on which podcasts to go to to boost his online reach and it clearly worked, which is another deficit the left-wing has against the right-wing/the online far-right as the followers of your Joe Rogans etc far outnumber any leftist podcasts (basically no major one, maybe Pod Save America) or streamers (Hasan being like the only one). And because everyone is online/the internet is the mainstream post-COVID, everyone gets a disproportionate feed of far-right and pro-Trump talking points and that's clearly powered him to victory with more young voters turning out for him compared to both the Democrats and the past.

 

It is similar over here where following the GE a lot of left wing commentators were pulling up the fact Starmer had a lower vote than Corbyn. Which is like, cool guys... but we know how our voting system works and one is Prime Minister and one led Labour to its worst election result since the 80s.

It just seems to boil down to a purity thing. Some Harris rallies were interrupted by Gaza protests. But a far as I'd seen none of this happened at a Trump rally... and only one of the two has been calling for a ceasefire. Gaza protests happened outside Keir Starmer's house. Did Sunak get the same treatment? did he ****.

The whole student union politics jibe is a bit of a cliche but many "on the left" don't have live up to it.

 

Might answer on his core but it ignores the literally millions who decided between two candidates and simply picked the one promising more money in their pockets.

Harris was not elected as these people were let down by biden and her. Not because Donald Trump tells lies or is a racist. There are literally millions more good people voting Trump than there are nuts and racists

 

In that perfect spot of having experienced things pre the turbo charging of the internet age (or whatever you want to call it) and not being too old to be fearful or unsure how to interact and use it.

And what is our reward?!!

 

@saint_clark - Trump doesn't want to just deport illegal immigrants, he wants to denaturalize folks who have earned their citizenship too.