England v France (Quarter Final)

Picks the same tired squad every time? I see a fairly young group of players. Who was left out that you would have picked?

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I don't think Southgate is a tactical genius by any means, but is it his fault that the players can't take their chances and their star striker whacks a penalty into row Z?

 

As I've said I'm no Southgate lover, but I can't see a better alternative on the horizon tbh.

 

We are out due to very fine margins, missed peno, hit a post, not much between the 2 teams, both teams probably in the best 6 teams in the world.
The plastic world cup, no atmosphere at stadiums, should never be played in the winter, and hope it is never ever played in this sort of setting ever again. A world cup which will be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

 

The Scots over the past day or so

 

Every football fan that isn't English more like. The entitlement is bizarre, the blame game is more bizarre. It's coming home in 2024....or 2026 for the anniversary

 

Not in Germany 2024, please

 

It'll never happen again Dirk, I think we're safe

 

"It'll never happen again"

Are we talking about England winning the world cup or Scotland qualifying for one?

 

Caught a big un before bed. Am I getting banned from the thread now?

 

None IMO

 

Ah, the old I was fishing routine. Always a good one that.

 

Italy - fail to even qualify for this world cup, haven't sacked their manager.
Germany - failed to get out of their group this world cup, haven't sacked their manager.

Can't believe they are rewarding failure with another opportunity.

 

Ah well, we can all be back to arguing with each other over domestic football in a couple of weeks

 

What entitlement?! We're perennial bottlers when it's crunch time. I don't know of any English football fans who thought England would win it, or deserved to win it, at the start of the tournament. We all knew (feared) what would happen. Only my mother believed this, but then I also caught her praying quietly for Kane to score the second penalty. Which is just one reason why I will never watch an important game with my mother present again... Ever.

 

I'm not disputing either are great managers obviously, I was just disputing that it would be a given that both would have succeeded with England whilst Southgate has failed. Below is the original quote - if anyone's going to suggest there's "no doubt" that one of the best club managers would have been successful with England I think it's fair to actually highlight their successes in tournament football and the biggest club tournaments (Europe).

I didn't bring in domestic cups because the likes of City have such dominance / advantages that it's not a sign of success for me. There is also nowhere near the same pressure on winning a League Cup or FA Cup as there is competing in a World Cup. No matter the standard of players / teams in the competition, it is the most prestigious trophy in football and brings a huge level of pressure with it.

You can talk about league successes but that's not what international football is. It's cup / knockout football which is not easy to win, no matter how good the manager is. Maybe Pep / Klopp would have won something by now but I don't agree that it's a guarantee which is what the original point was hinting at.

Pep's European record at City is pretty dismal. They've been knocked out by much weaker teams in most of the years that he's been there because he's overthought and tinkered things when he hasn't needed to
and my point on Klopp stands too. Everyone talks about Spurs being bottlers which is the one European final Klopp has won. He's lost all of the others but is a guarantee to be a success with England? Given you've mentioned bringing domestic trophies in to it too, he joined Liverpool in 2015 and won his first domestic cup in 2022. He's had 10+ or so cracks at winning a domestic cup before succeeding. People are advocating Southgate be sacked after just 3 failed attempts and some of those people would have sacked him after two.

Both are very successful club managers but I don't think that means either are instantly a success in international football because it's very different and ultimately knockout / tournament football requires a bit of luck too. Similarly I wouldn't want Southgate at my club but I don't think it's as simplistic as saying a world class club manager would have guaranteed any better than Southgate has.

Southgate's had six years at England which sounds like a long time but if you boil it down to just three tournaments it's not that drastic. Klopp lost his first three at Liverpool, it didn't stop him going on to have success in other competitions later in his Liverpool reign.

 

If they are perennial bottlers then how are they "the best group of players we've had", "the best squad depth at the world cup" etc. I am not quoting you specifically by the way

 

Haven't read much of the reaction but I thought we were the better team on Saturday and obviously could've gone on to win it if Kane hadn't skied his pen into row Z. Not a lot the manager can do about that. France were very lucky.

There's no obvious candidate to replace him at the moment so logically he should be allowed to carry on, but I reckon he'll step down and have a well deserved break.

You can't win them all but he gave it a bloody good go. A much better go than anyone since 1966. I just hope his successor carries on his good work and we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by going in a completely different direction. Doubt we will TBF.

 

I definitely think people are disregarding the nuances between club management and international maangement too much.

- as previously stated, you can't fix your problems in a transfer market
- you go months between matches
- you go months between training sessions with the players
- you're forced to utilise players that don't meet your standards

You don't get these problems in club management. There's a bloody good reason the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Ancelotti have gone nowhere near an international job.

As you state, Guardiola is prone to massive attacks of galaxy brain. We all knew France was the likely QF for a long time, imagine what madness Guardiola would have come up with having had months to think about that fixutre?