England v France (Quarter Final)

You can only bottle something if you're good enough to win it in the first place.
Only England fans get criticised and ridiculed for praising their side and hoping they win. It's bizarre.

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Here comes more salty tears. Happy days

 

England have never beaten a higher ranked side in a knockout game since 1966.

I think that's proof that we aren't that good.

 

I think the better way of judging that would be comparatively how many times England have been knocked out by lower ranked sides in that time frame v how many times they've gone through, same with higher ranked sides.

Maybe it was because it's a mid-season winter world cup & there wasn't much time to hype beforehand, but this tournament felt to me like the least fanfare England have had going into one in a long time. Haven't heard Three Lions once!

 

You've got to be able to beat the top sides to win anything though we just never do.

I agree with the hype, barely seen or heard anything locally about it, and the England fans in Qatar have been really quiet too.

 

Might be due to it being December. It never really felt like a proper World Cup. Hope this is the first and last time it is set up like this.

 

I think they were the best group of players with the best squad depth that we have had for a very long time. But something seems to be missing mentally in these occasions, and it is repeated when a new generation appears. I expect that France will win it now and I think England would have won it, or pushed Argentina very close, if they got past France. Regardless, I'm not too disappointed as they put in a good performance, and we had fun along the way.

 

this. who exactly have southgate's england beaten in competitive matches in recent years? england have great players, but against quality sides, southgate's management isn't up to it. and it isn't necessarily all down to tactics or playing an overly defensive team; his team selection and subs were the reason they were knocked out this time.

 

This is pretty grim reading to be honest considering the players we produce...not just Southgate btw

 

For me everyone just points to us not beating a top nation - like the comment above, we rarely have and that's before Southgate and look, it will happen again. Only one team can win this thing and its still only a small number of nations that have.

I was born in 1988, Euro 96 was the first real international tournament i remember. The biggest striking thing for me with this current crop is we now look like an international team. For too long we have had good players but played and set up like it was a premier league game, it was all we knew and we all believed it was the best league - Is it the best or was it the best? that's up for debate but it was and still is the most exciting. England fans seem to struggle with International football not being that exciting at times and more about keeping the ball and not making mistakes. England always made mistakes or ran our of gas, how many times did we look good for 60 - 65 minutes and then concede or lose?

Their is no shame in losing to these top teams in knockout football, however, that loss on Saturday was the first time in recent memory for me where we matched and at times outplayed the opposition of a top nation, we had more possession and efforts on goal so whilst we still lost and will still will be labelled bottle jobs, it was the best i felt we have looked at this stage, even compared to the Euros last year and the last World Cup.

Southgate has done more good than bad for me - yes you can question some of his subtitles but he moved to a 433 for this World Cup which people wanted, he has so much personal to pick from in the attacking positions, he will not please everyone. We have not won yet but sometimes it takes time, Germany slowly built up to the their 2014 success from 2006. We only have to go back to 2016 for one of the lowest moments in our history. The bulk of this team are still very young. Providing they continue to develop and other stars emerge i do think we have a great chance with or without Southgate.

The risk for a more sexier/attacking manager is that we end like we always did, weak in midfield and tactically outdone against the top team - look at Brazil, forcing attacking players into the starting XI and then undone against the first organised team they come up against. The current style is effective, we are one of the highest scorers at this world cup and its no bad thing having a bench that can match if not better what's on the pitch in times of need.

I personally see the team and Southgate as still developing in the right direction and i think we should back him if he does remain.

 

Well said.

It's pretty clear he's the best man for the job. Whether he can be bothered to stick around any longer remains to be seen though.

 

Southgate also comes across as a really likable bloke. I would have loved to see him win a trophy with the team, so he could bury 1996.

 

Ferguson did a stint as the Scottish manager. I think top managers want far more action and involvement than they would get at international level, thats why they steer clear. Most top managers are workaholics.

As for having to utilize players that don't meet your standard? Managers of countries like ours have an abundance of talent to choose from, does Klopp have the comfort of leaving Trent, White, Trippier out at right back? does he have the comfort of being able to bring on Grealish, Sterling, Wilson, Rashford, etc if the front three are misfiring. Players like Maddison not even getting a sniff, players like Gomez, Sancho, Bowen, Toney not even getting in the squad? Lets stop pretending England dont have a very good pool of players to choose from, they do. According to the "experts" we have the most valuable squad of the world cup

Liverpool for example may have world class players like Salah, Van Dijk, Alisson, etc to call upon, but once a couple of these top players start getting injured we have nowhere near the depth and international manager has...couple of injuries and we're relying on 36 year old Milner and two young kids in Elliott (who incidentally doesnt even get a friendly call up for England) and Carvalho (who gets nowhere near the Portugal squad). Top club sides will always have a few real top class players to call upon, but depth-wise Southgate has a far bigger pool to choose from.

As for fixing things in the transfer market? Not really, player gets injured 1st September you cant rectify that till Jan, in the meantime you have 30 or so games (real games, not friendlies against San Marino and co) to play whereas Southgate just has to dip into the deep pool of international players, the club manager has to rely on a squad player, if hes injured youre down to calling kids up.

Here you go, so Southgate cant "fix things in the transfer market" but club managers cant just completely ignore this lot, whilst they wouldnt be first choicers for top sides, most would certainly get games

Dean Henderson (Nottingham Forest)
Fikayo Tomori (AC Milan), Marc Guehi ( Crystal Palace ), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Tyrick Mitchell (Crystal Palace)Joe Gomez (Liverpool)
James Ward-Prowse ( Southampton ), Ruben Loftus-Cheek (Chelsea)
Ivan Toney (Brentford), Jadon Sancho (Man Utd), Tammy Abraham (Roma), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham), Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa)

Would any of this lot be like 6th, 7th, 8th choices for top club sides? No, they'd be much further up the pecking order. So whilst Southgate cant hit the transfer market, he already has his huge pool of players to choose from.

Also add injured players like Chilwell, James, etc to the pool of talent at his disposal.

 

Yeah if you had that group of players at a club in the Premiership, they'd be title challengers I reckon

 

Absolutely.

 

Yeah would've been nice but luck wasn't on our side. Such small margins in knockout football.

I expect him to step down TBH. Think he deserves to go on his own terms, with his reputation still in tact and having left a positive legacy. Like Steve Holland said I don't think the job he's done will be fully appreciated by most until he's long gone. Obviously a lot will depend on the next man, and right now it's hard to see any obvious candidates. Maybe Howe, Potter or even Steve Cooper given his FA ties, but I doubt any would do any better than Southgate has.

 

I note how the stat misses out 2002 when we beat Argentina We also beat Denmark. A few decent other South American teams there, but it is a little misleading as we are always a top seed so obviously we usually play more weaker sides than top sides.

We beat Germany, Croatia and Denmark in the last Euros - all good sides.

But still, we all know what happens when it comes to the latter stages.

 

Never beat a higher ranked side in the knockout stages since 1966, and only beat one higher ranked side in the group stages since 1966.

 

Was at work during the game, but I just want to say a big **** you to Kyle Walker. Had Walker and Griezmann to be booked and both teams to score for a fiver, would've won me 170 quid. Thought of all the variables Walker getting booked up against Mbappe was almost a given lol.

 

How dare he not get booked!