I hope this world cup was worth it

johnnyT · Dec 21, 2022

The hotel industry would collapse in Liverpool if tourists couldn't get a ticket to snake mountain.

Be 25k gates at best as well.

Norfolk Mariner · Dec 21, 2022

StretfordEnd said: ↑

That's not my point at all. Neville, Keane et al shouldn't have been in Qatar reaping in their no doubt inflated appearance fees if they disagreed fundamentally with the tournament being held there. Neville was made to look absurd when he decided to front Have I Got News For You the week before the World Cup began and claimed he was taking the money in order to highlight the social injustices of Qatar, because his position is indefensible.

If he and others can't see the ridiculousness of taking 3 weeks in the Qatari sunshine to educate the viewers as to why the competition should have been held elsewhere then I pity them. As I said, a classic case of "do as I say, not as I do".
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The real hypocrites in this debate are those who are perfectly happy to have a go at the likes of Keane and Neville but have absolutely nothing whatsoever to say about the trading that goes on between the UK and Qatar every single day of the year. It seems as though we haven't moved on one iota from the arguments that were pursued in relation to rebel cricket tours of South Africa 30 or 40 years ago. The soft target isn't always the right one.

zippy · Dec 22, 2022

njmcfc1894 said: ↑

Didn't we try to get WC while we were in an illegal war in Iraq?
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I've never understood this drivel about a war being legal or illegal, a war is just a war. Can you imagine the likes of Hitler or Stalin just about to get the tanks rolling, then a phone call comes through to the general staff, "Sorry lads, switch off the engines, we can't invade Poland, apparently it's illegal".

No, I can't either.

Tshabs said: ↑

Except two natural deaths are not associated with a Qatari Word Cup drenched in the blood of migrant labor because they are natural deaths which would've likely happened even if, like, it were Costa Rica who were hosting an entirely carbon positive and openly and decidedly pro-human rights/working class World Cup. Their deaths did not happen because of how Qataris treated them, as far as we know, so Its entirely spin to try and associate their tragic deaths with the forced deaths of migrants. Doing so adds nothing to the argument/point that we do both agree on. Which sucks because we're already fighting an uphill battle because, even though I liked seeing an African team make the semi-finals for the first time, I'm a bit miffed because unfortunately for you and me, the unpredictable results this World Cup produced was enough entertainment for the average person to ignore the migrants death and sportswashing.

I know and I feel the same way about you which is why I never really firmly push back when you criticize foreign fans. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment if it were someone like Zippy for instance. Because any pushing back will only likely end in tears (which I do not want) since - your issue is effectively with my existence, so I am understandably not going to back down, while you are firmly entrenched in your position in taking issue with my existence. And I agree with you that the amount of money pumped into the Premier League especially but also La Liga doesn't help global football but framing foreign fans for it and being hostile towards them isn't going to change anything. That's just tilting at windmills and tilting at windmills not in the manner of Cervantes, but more the manner of the Inquisition, which is bound to create negativity and pushback from people who in all likelihood agree with you on probably everything else apart from you taking issue with their existence because of their origins, ie something they cannot control (which is a clear cut case of xenophobia. I'm sorry, but this is dictionary definition stuff, especially since you outright refuse to accept them no matter how sincere or genuine their support for/knowledge of a club purely because of their origin, which is textbook xenophobia).

I'll happily expand on the reasons why your framing of foreign fans is tilting at windmills when I have more time, but the basic reasons are a) as @Guyett pointed out social/economic/political trends over the last 40 years, which fans regardless of their origins have Infinitesimal, if at all any, control over. Trends that have not only decimated English working class people but trends that have decimated working class people all over the world, which is to say that you and the foreign fans you despise are in the same boat in the bigger picture. And historical and linguistic factors which no fans have any control over whatsoever; b) an unrealistic expectation/dismissal of actual human nature and human social behavior; and c) and on a semi-related note, an incredibly unrealistic belief that you wouldn't have foreign fans even if all leagues were equal, especially given today's communication tech.
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Bloody hell I got a mention on radio 4 !

Taffy · Dec 23, 2022

zippy said: ↑

I've never understood this drivel about a war being legal or illegal, a war is just a war. Can you imagine the likes of Hitler or Stalin just about to get the tanks rolling, then a phone call comes through to the general staff, "Sorry lads, switch off the engines, we can't invade Poland, apparently it's illegal".

No, I can't either.

Bloody hell I got a mention on radio 4 !
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Yeah sorry chaps but paragraph 4 on page 57 states that we cannot invade country A unless the British public in a phone vote ( all texts are a minumum of £3 so ask mummy and daddy if under 16 ) reach 51% as a yes.

StretfordEnd · Dec 24, 2022

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I hope this world cup was worth it

johnnyT Well-Known Member

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zippy The friendly Fascist

Taffy C'mon you reds.

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I hope this world cup was worth it

johnnyT Well-Known Member

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Taffy C'mon you reds.

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