I wonder why the evangelicals send their kids to conversion therapy if raising a kid to believe they are a certain gender/sexual orientation is so defining.
Sometimes parents aren't good at raising children. Sometimes children are more heavily influenced by other external factors than their parents. I don't believe either romantic or sexual attraction is something purely societal anyway, I believe it's something that is set within you.
Left/Right handedness isn't a trained skill, I'm sorry but it just isn't. Left handedness used to be viewed as a negative trait (particularly in Christian societies) see here. My own grandmother is left handed naturally but used to have her left hand tied behind her back by the nuns at her Roman Catholic school to force her to write right-handed, unsurprisingly (because it isn't a trained skill) she is still left handed. As people understood more about how left handedness wasn't some huge negative trait, the reported rate of left handedness has risen massively. You can find the exact same trend with the rates of homosexuality. It's almost like once things aren't demonised by society people are less likely to hide it and the rate of these things goes up.
So you think it's perfectly feasible then that something which right now, today affects 0.8% of the population of America just so happened to affect four children from one mother and there were no other factors involved in them identifying as trans?
If you believe that then why do you not believe that gender identity could be something that is set within you too?
If we have more and more parents conditioning their children from an early age to believe they are something they're not, you're right.
If you refuse to accept that gender dysphoria is a real thing then there really isn't a conversation to be had here. That makes you a bigot who refuses to acknowledge scientific consensus.
I know gender dysphoria is real. It's the disconnect between how you identify and your biological sex. I think we should look at other potential causes for that disconnect, how to treat people to close that gap and make them feel comfortable in their own body before we leap to filling them full of drugs and mutilating their bodies through surgery. And there isn't scientific consensus on this. If there was, they wouldn't be rolling back the hormone replacement therapy in this country and closing clinics.
Why? What difference does it make? If you agree it's real, and if you agree that surgery improves how a person feels about themselves then why shouldn't it be ok? I genuinely don't understand why anyone would care in the slightest. If an adult has chosen to transition then it harms absolutely no one else. It's their choice, their life let them get on with it.
Analysis finds strong consensus on gender transition treatment effectiveness | Department of Sociology. Sure, no scientific consensus. NONE of the studies found a negative effect from gender transition, but I'm sure you know better.
Because if those people are misdiagnosed then they've been pushed down a pretty radical path that is nigh on irreversible if they transition and it doesn't solve all their mental health issues as they were led to believe it would. It might not harm anyone but themselves but that doesn't mean I shouldn't care. I also never said I believe the surgery would improve how they feel about themselves. I don't know if you've ever seen images of the alterations made during surgery - it's very experimental and often looks absolutely horrific. The "artificial penises" can look like something from a Frankenstein film. The artificial vaginas cause all kinds of issues because hair continues to grow inside them.
I knew this kind of comment was coming. It's a lazy swipe that once again ignores the points I'm making in favour of discrediting me through insult.
I see we're ignoring the clear scientific consensus in favour of "Have you seen how ****ed up their genitals are?!?" I see
Analysis finds strong consensus on gender transition treatment effectiveness | Department of Sociology You might not be saying it, but based on all the research to date it is true.
I know quite a few trans people, both male to female and female to male. I also know from them the stress and damage transitioning takes, the mental burden, the psychological toll and monetary cost. From knowing these people and knowing what they’ve been through I know it’s none of my business to decide for them what they want to do. So if an adult decides it’s their path, and they are causing no harm to anyone my (and your) opinion on their bodies is irrelevant. It’s their body their choice
I think the issue that many people are raising is the issue of young children, particularly young pre-pubescant children, deciding to embark on this path without having any way of truly understanding all the very complex and potentially serious psychological and physical issues that decision may cause them in adolescence and adulthood. And whether it's right that a young child's choice at that age should be taken as gospel and action taken to start leading them down that path, such as social transitioning and using new pronouns etc. Or whether a more cautious approach should be taken with psychological support and counselling to allow that child chance to grow and find out whether that decision is still right for them when they reach adolescence and are in a better position to understand the complex and very adult issues that they will be faced with if they decide that's the permanent path they wish to take. I think the problem I have with this is that there are a huge array of very sensitive and complex adult issues around transitioning, particularly involving fertility, their sex life and sexual preferences etc that a young child will obviously be unable to understand and it would be completely inappropriate to try and explain to them. And I'm not sure that this is a path that you could begin to lead a young child down in good conscience before they have reached an age where they can start to understand these things, have the honest adult conversations and have their eyes fully open to the path ahead of them should they choose to continue. It's not a case of trying to put children off transitioning or talk them out of it. It's just such a complex decision that I don't think primary school aged children should be able to make when there isn't any way they could possibly have a full understanding of the implications of what they are doing. And by enabling the soft early stages of transitioning like changing pronouns and names etc it's potentially setting a child down a very difficult path that is very difficult to change course from once you've started and have made the big step of introducing your new identity to everyone you know at school. As you say, no sensible, non-bigoted person should have any problem with the existence of transgender people and should fully respect the choice they've made which will probably have been very difficult and come with a huge number of challenges. But I do think that caution should be exercised when it comes to primary school aged children and things should be kept as neutral as possible with their thoughts talked through professionally and sensitively at that time so that a full understanding can be gained as to why they feel that way. And delay taking affirmative action with any formal transitioning process until they are at least in secondary school and they're in the position to begin the much more difficult and complex adult discussions about transitioning and the issues they may face as they grow up and begin their later adolescent and adult lives.
