TBH fella I am not sure how they work it out. Is it minutes played or assists it they are level to decide ..................
My point is that you judge the very best on how they respond to the biggest games with the most pressure and in the most trying circumstances. Messi has had that challenge thrown at him at two World cups. In neither has he shone. These games are the biggest he will play in. The hardest to win with the most pressure attached. You get to see him taken out of the comfort zone of his all conquering club side. You watch Maradona, Pele, Cruyff and Zidane and how they stood out in their World Cups. When the biggest stage presented itself they shone. If he deserves to be put among those guys why can't he shine when he's needed most. Plenty of players have good world cups but very few stand out so that we can look back and say 86, that was Maradona's world cup or 98 that was Zidanes World cup. Unless he does something amazing on Sunday' We won't be saying that of Messi I couldn't give a shit about goals scored in La Liga. It means f*** all. You put Darren Bent in that Barcelona team in front of Xavi and Iniesta and hell give you fifty goals against some of the minnows they play. Quoting how many titles he's won means nothing. You don't need to look at stats to know Pele was special just your eyes. Use your eyes and watch Messi against Belgium and Holland and realise he may be good but he's not in that bracket with Pele and co
At the height of Guardiola's team David Villa went months and months without a goal - one of the best goalscorers of the last decade.
Me thinks you're still bitter over this... [video=youtube;r6BHyv6nkAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6BHyv6nkAs[/video] ...but the again, he only turns up against shite opposition Messi has done it against all the best clubs sides on the planet, Real, Bayern, Man United, etc Get a grip lad, get a grip. Pathetic response to a very valid point.
I have no dislike for Messi I just can't believe he is being compared to Maradona and co. I would expect it from kids but if you actually watched Maradona and Zidane as I did then to compare Messi's comparative lack of achievements to them is ridiculous!!!!!!!! Watch Maradona in 86 and if you can honestly tell me that Messi's performances even come close then let me know.
Except for a World Cup winners medal, what 'achievements' do Maradona and Zidane have that Messi doesn't at least equal?
As you did? Are you suggesting I never saw Maradona or Zidane? Lad, I saw Maradona burst on to the scene, I saw most of Cruyffs career, Zidane, Platini, etc so don't be coming out with the "Expect this from kids" crap. You're judging Messi solely on a cup competition that is very much luck of the draw to were many very average players have outshone superstars...Costa Rica for example. not a star name in their squad yet they outshone a few sides packed with star players. This proves you can't judge anything on world cups. You don't seem to be responding to me pointing out Messi has done it against all the top clubs in the world, as well as in Champions League finals, semi's. scoring hattricks as a 19 year old in El Classico, etc
Shite & Injury plagued. Silvestre, Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia etc starting, oh my god, dark times for us. As for crackfox's 'pathetic response', It's common knowledge Barca's entire system since Messi was moved central revolves around him, we just signed the latest casualty of project accommodate Messi. Not saying it was a bad thing to do at the time, it wasn't, they were incredible for years & Messi was the best player I've ever seen in those years, but equating Villa or any other winger's place in that team to Messi's is complete bollocks.
What have Costa Rica got to do with anything. Maradona didnt allow luck to affect his world cup, He went and made sure that he won. I'm talking about a so called all time great on his third chance to shine in the best, Most difficult toughest challenge he will face in his career. Not once at any point has he looked an "all time great". I'm not judging him on one competition. I'm saying he's a great player but unless he can prove how great he is when it matters most, When its the hardest to do so then he's not in Maradona and co's league. As I said tell me that he compares to what Maradona did in 86. Schumacher wasn't great because he won a shit load of formula two races. jack Nicklaus wasn't great because they won a load of tour events. They were great because they raised their game time and time again in the toughest situations and biggest competitions, took them by the scruff of the neck and made sure they won. That takes you from being very good to being a great. Great sportsman have something unique that allows them to find that extra something when its needed. Messi lacks this mental strength although he has the natural talent. How can you judge someone as a great when he has always underperformed in his biggest challenge.
When you consider the calibre of some of the players that are unfortunate enough to play for poorer nations you'd have to say that the Champions league is now THE premier competition for quality too.
Are you actually reading what is being said? Crackfox claimed Darren Bent would score 50 goals in the Barca side, it was pointed out David Villa struggled for months to score in the same side, now even though Barca's game very much centred around Messi, the fact Villa struggled for months sort of proves his response to be pathetic. Or are you and crack suggesting Villa never had any chances n these games? Totally bypassed? Behave yourself.
Because they proved the world cup isn't this "barometer of greatness" as you are making out. They never had a single star player in their squad but did well. As ever, moving the goal posts and contradictng yourself. You claim to not be judging Messi on the one competition, yet finish off talking about what Maradona did in 1986 So Messi has never done this in Champions League semis and finals? Games against Real Madrid? which is just about the biggest game in world football, actually no, in world sport.
Ah, I had thought it was minutes played, but I looked it up and it's actually assists first. No idea who would get it in that case.
As I've said a million times already. To perform at your peak and stand out head and shoulders above everyone of your peers at the biggest most difficult highest pressure tournament that you play in is the measure of a true great. If you perform well and stand out in the comfort zone of day to day but fail to do so when you receive the biggest challenge of your career then you cannot be called an all time great. Great players in any sport rise to the challenge not shrink away from it. Maradona is the example I chose because he perfectly demonstrated this. ie a great player who rose to his biggest challenge and performed at his very best and at a level far in advance of any of his peers. Simple fact: Messi has failed to do perform anywhere near to his best and in no way has he stood out among the great players of the current day now in three separate chances to prove himself at the peak of competition.
